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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #94390
01/08/08 11:31 PM
01/08/08 11:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Let's answer the questions in the order in which they were posted.

1. What did Jesus mean when He said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

"He had not set aside the law given through Moses, nor infringed upon the authority of Rome." {DA 461}

2. What did Jesus mean when He said, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #94410
01/09/08 01:37 PM
01/09/08 01:37 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Jesus Christ *forgave* the woman caught in adultery. He did not kill her, nor command that she be killed. Obviously.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #94412
01/09/08 03:07 PM
01/09/08 03:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
1. What did Jesus mean when He said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

TE: He did not ... command that she be killed.

MM: So, you believe, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her", does not mean Jesus gave them permission to stone her death? If that's what it means why didn't He say so?

Sister White wrote that - "He had not set aside the law given through Moses ...." {DA 461} The law required stoning to death people who committed adultery. His words make it clear He was not setting aside the law.

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #94413
01/09/08 03:07 PM
01/09/08 03:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Please answer the second question. Thank you.

2. What did Jesus mean when He said, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #94414
01/09/08 03:14 PM
01/09/08 03:14 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
1. What did Jesus mean when He said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

TE: He did not ... command that she be killed.

MM: So, you believe, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her", does not mean Jesus gave them permission to stone her death? If that's what it means why didn't He say so?

Sister White wrote that - "He had not set aside the law given through Moses ...." {DA 461} The law required stoning to death people who committed adultery. His words make it clear He was not setting aside the law.


I'm not seeing any point in continuing this discussion. If you perceive that Jesus Christ, in pardoning the woman caught in adultery, was actually commanding that she be killed, then this is a view that is so far removed from what I perceive corresponds to reality, I don't know how to continue.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #94461
01/10/08 04:01 PM
01/10/08 04:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
You still haven't explained what Jesus meant when He said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Jesus said, "... let him first cast a stone at her." Did He mean it? Or, did He mean something else? Was He setting aside the law of Moses?

Also, you are running and hiding from the second question. Why? What are you afraid of?

2. What did Jesus mean when He said, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #94463
01/10/08 04:24 PM
01/10/08 04:24 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Id be more interested in how God can still be the righteous judge with Tom's view. For obviously not all are going to recieve an absolving decision. And while I imagen there is no disagreemet concerning the reward of those who accept Gods invitation, I still have not heard any good and biblically sound explanation for Gods dealings with those who mock and spit on the invitation.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: vastergotland] #94474
01/10/08 05:49 PM
01/10/08 05:49 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at, so I'll give a brief answer. I can go in more detail as I understand the question better.

Each one will receive what they have chosen. Those who have chosen Christ will receive eternal life. Those who have rejected Christ, choosing sin, will receive eternal death. This is because Christ is life, so in choosing Christ, one chooses life. The wages of sin is death (or as some versions put it more clearly, sin pages its wages: death), so those who choose sin choose death.

God is a righteous judge because He sees to it that each one receives that which they have chosen.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #94475
01/10/08 06:06 PM
01/10/08 06:06 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
And how does God make sure all sinners die without killing them? Humans die after a while but humanity has thus far showed no signs of dying out, and angels? As far as we know, the devil is as old as humanity or more. What would it take for sin to pay its wages to the devils?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: vastergotland] #94481
01/10/08 06:38 PM
01/10/08 06:38 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
No beings have life in and of themselves. All life comes from God, and needs God's active involvement to sustain it. If God simply stops sustaining someone's life, they would cease to exist. I suppose someone could think of this as God's "killing" someone, but this isn't usually what is meant when people say this; they using having in mind God's taking some sort of violent action, like raining fire upon them, to cause their death violently. The former case would be more like putting someone to sleep, nevermore to awake.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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