If sperm that did not fertilize the egg did not die we could have had a bit of a traffic jam in Eve's fallopian tubes. And everyone knows that hair consists of dead cells. It is obvious that the death spoken of in the texts Rosangela is using would be senseless death such as we hear about everyday.

What about the death of the plants we eat? Were the plant's not alive before we ate them? And by eating fruit, you are eating the unborn (not grown seed) of that plant.

Should we discuss weather plants are alive or not? Or does the rule only apply to some types of life and not others. Because I don't recall the bible telling me the difference.

And are there different types of death? What kind of death's are there? I only know of one type of death. How many types are there?

Now, you might be of the belief that God didn't want us to die, but how can you argue that death was not planned? He gave us the option, BEFORE sin ever happened! How is that NOT planned death? He realized that death could happen, He had to have some other choice for us, other than life, since He had already give us that. Life and death go hand in hand.

We all fight death so much, maybe because we don't understand it. None of us has died, so no one can talk from experience. Maybe there's something about death that God has not revealed to us yet? I'm not pushing for death, I don't want to die, life is cool. But death is a part of the plan, for sure in my eyes. I am glad God gave us death, so we can appreciate life. If all you ever knew was the color blue, you'd have no idea how great of a color red is.

Without Satan, you wouldn't fully appreciate how great God is!

Without death, how could you really appreciate life?

fun2believe,

So your idea is that God finds satisfaction in death, and that God and death go hand in hand. Well, of course you are entitled to your opinion.
The fact that God foresaw the existence of sin and death is completely different from believing that death was part of God's original plan. Creating a world adapted for death would mean that God decided to support the devil's agenda. I don't think this was the case. What happens is that God overrules evil for good.
The Bible says that death is the last enemy to be destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26). And one of the most significant promises God gives is that, in the new earth, “death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

Darius, you are presupposing that the way things happen today is the way they happened before sin.
What happens is that, while the cells within the strand of hair are dead, the hair root is alive, for it makes the hair grow. The fact that the cells within the strand are dead is good, otherwise the hair couldn't be cut without causing pain. But who said that perfect beings must have their hair cut? Do you imagine the angels having their hair cut?

Do you really think this is sound logic?

I agree completely that God realized that death could happen. However, because it could happen doesn't imply it had to. The choice we were given was the choice to sin. Death comes from sin. If Adam and Eve had chosen not to sin, they wouldn't have died.

The reason the death was not planned is because the sin was not planned. That is, God realized it was possible for Adam and Eve to sin, but God did not intend or plan that that should happen. They chose to sin *contrary* to God's plans and intentions.

Is not the real problem here that we have no way of imagining how things would happen if the happened in some genuinely different way than they happen now. Maybe no lives will be lost on earth recreated, that is possible, but for us to say that we know what that would acctually look like is just foolishness. Nothing in our experience here can give any hints at what a world without lost life would look like. If you start to argue down this path, then hair and nails must be done away with, skin as we know it must be done away with, the stomach and intestine system must be entierly remodeled. Maybe God can keep his original design of the brain, perhaps. What may look like a simple argument about wether one will have to cut ones hair or not swiftly turns out to be an argument about God taking us and remaking us into something which is not a human body by any definitions now known. This is conceviable if one has the view that humans are souls which inhabits bodies, where God could easily take the human from an earthly body and place him or her in a new and different body. With the adventist view that there is no such thing as a human without a body, this is just foolishness as well.

Dogma is so important to us that we have lost sight of reason. I don't know what to say because this is really sad.

dog·ma /ˈdɔgmə, ˈdɒg-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dawg-muh, dog-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -mas, -ma·ta /-mətə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-muh-tuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. 1. a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.
2. a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.
3. prescribed doctrine: political dogma.
4. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.

So sad, too bad. It's clear to me (and I'm sure to others both on here and around the world) that the SDA chruch is more concerned with keeping the letter of the law, than actually following the law. It's SO important to know all the rules, we over-scrutinize the words in the bible, we check and re-check what ellen said. We spend so much time making sure others are following OUR rules, that we can't even figure out what type of person OTHERS see us as.

IF you could all just take a minute, and step back. Look objectively at the church we have created. Is it REALLY bringing people closer to christ? Are people more happy inside the church than outside of it? We certainly don't NEED the church, God even say's so. So why have it? I think it's fine if it does something good(like bring people to Christ), but it's clear it's doing the opposite.

Look at the falling numbers. Look at all the scandel and controversy. You want to say that's it's because it's the "end time" and we are getting closer to heaven. But are we? With the way this chruch is run, and the beliefs people in it push upon others (yeah, that's right, push.) When was the last time you went to a different chruch, and presented like a lay person? Try it, see what you find. You'll find people pushing their beliefs and DOGMA's onto you, not offering you the chance to decide for yourself. God does not do that to us, why does this church?

God gave us this ability to reason. Reasoning is not a result of Sin. God gave us the ability to reason, and even demanded it of us. He gave us choice, and the ability to look at BOTH sides of the coin. Why can't this chruch do that? How long will we keep driving people away from the Light? A chruch is only as strong as it's members (the way a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link), and it's the member's that make up the chruch. So this church is weak and narrowsighted, because the people REFUSE to use the skills that God gave us.

Jesus said to take the narrow path, but it sure is hard to navigate that path, when we keep looking down into our rule books on how to navigate, instead of using the perfectly good eyes and mind that we have. Maybe we've missed the path all together, all the while looking into books for the path. Not all maps are correct, and when it get's dark outside, sometimes it's better to turn off the flashlight, put away the map, and use our other sense's to help us find the way.

And when ANY one of you is perfect, you let me know, because then I'll have an example here on earth of perfection, and I'll know you are filled with the Lord. But untill then, how about we all just try to find the path to take, the lesser traveled one.

I'd be interested in some explanation from those who believe that the Genesis account of a world-wide flood is a parable.

In a parable, the main actors/actions signify something different than in the story. For example, in the parable of the Sower that sowed in different places, the Sower is Christ (often working through individuals), the different kinds of grounds are the hearts, etc.

So in the "parable of the world-wide flood," what's what?