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Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Rosangela] #95425
02/08/08 01:51 PM
02/08/08 01:51 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Good! I have met some who have engaged in a form of Bibliolitry, where the Bible becomes a type of idol. Well, from Jesus' words to the Pharisees, we can see that they were doing that.

One of the things I liked reading from the Spirit of Prophecy was in the Desire of Ages where she talks about how there are heathen who will be saved (I'm sure you know the passage, so I won't quote it). This shows that we are saved by knowing God through Jesus Christ (who can reveal God to a person in many ways), and not by simply believing certain words we read in Scripture, which, unfortunately, there are those who seem to believe.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Tom] #95435
02/08/08 05:11 PM
02/08/08 05:11 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall
 Quote:
If Paul is telling us how our future bodies will be, then I was right when I said that God will give us bodes which do not correspond with anything we know about today. But if Paul is making an illustration about our spiritual life after having died and been resurrected with Christ through baptism, then maybe we should be a bit more careful with what other conclusions we draw from the passage.


Concluding that God will give us bodies which do not correspond to anything we know about today seems a bit much to me. I'm sure there is much about resurrected bodies which will be completely new, but there is much that won't be as well, don't you think? For example, we will have 2 arms, 2 hands, 2 eyes, etc.; our manner of thinking will be the same (without the forgetfulness and stupid mistakes)
As I said, if ressurection bodies have no exchange of cells where old cells fall off dead, then some of the most important parts of the body will no longer be what they are today. A person can live without an arm, a hand, an eye, a leg and so forth. No human can survive without skin or a stumach/intestine system. Both of these have replenishment and exchange of cells as a crucial part of how they work, and were this exchange to stop, you would be dead in a short time (dont know exactly how short but I imagen within a month.
 Quote:

Regarding the second point about it being an illustration, I'm not following that. The whole chapter is talking about the resurrection. It's centered on the resurrection of Jesus, which is dealing with His literal resurrection, where he was physically dead, but raised up with a spiritual body. Do you not understand it this way? Our resurrected bodies will be like Jesus' was. That seems clear to me. Do you disagree?
I confess not taking a very close look at the passage. As I said, I dont know that it makes any substantial difference to what I have said. As you said, Jesus was dead and then He was ressurected. Whats characteristic of His ressurection body? We do not know if it was working any different in any biological sence. We know that He ate and had His scars, but He also walked through walls and disappeared unexpectedly, perhaps like teleportation. Will we also be able to move through walls and locked doors and teleport when we get ressurection bodies? Locksmiths will go out of buisness if thats true. My summary is that any biological differences between bodies as we know them and ressurection bodies are for the time being pure speculation and nothing beyond that. Rosangela has no foundation for saying that hair cells will not be dead no more than I have any foundation for speculating about a ressurection body skin.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #95438
02/08/08 05:40 PM
02/08/08 05:40 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
I was raised to believe that the flood was a real event. A world wide full on flood, that destroyed everything on earth, except the people and animals that were with Noah. And as a child it was easy to believe, a big boat full of God's creatures floating around until the water receeded.

However, as I've grown, learned, and been educated about our animal population on this earth, I find this more likely to be a parabell. And for what I would consider valid reasons.

1. Is there a boat big enough to hold EVERY type of animal on earth? I assume that would include ALL landbased animals, plus insects of all types, and any fresh water fish/species. Not only would this boat have to hold all the different types of animals, it would have to hold food to feed all of the animals for 40 days! Now, that seems like a MASSIVE boat to me, in fact, I'm not even sure that with today's technology and materials/craftmanship it's possible. Just the sheer amount of space necessary to house all these creatures is staggering to the mind. And all of it capable of floating, using technology and more importantly the material supplies of the day!

It just seems like it was meant to be a parabell, and not in fact an actual event. Now obviously, since I was not there, and can't vouch for the validity of the story, I'm wondering if the is any evidence for it being either reality vs parabell, with a great lesson for all of us.

Adam named all the animal species in less than a day, which suggests a small number. God guided the animals onto the ark, which suggests only the original species entered the ark (no dinosaurs, etc). The caged animals would have been inactive, which suggests they didn't require a lot of food. Thus, I have no problem believing the story as it appears in the Bible.

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Mountain Man] #95439
02/08/08 05:51 PM
02/08/08 05:51 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
God did not create dinosaurs? Who else in this universe has the creative power to creat them then? Scripture says that God created everything that was created through the Word/Jesus. Dinosaurs existed so either God did not bring all sorts of animals on the ark or they died out after the event.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Darius] #95442
02/08/08 06:11 PM
02/08/08 06:11 PM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Just so you know, I don't believe it is a parable. It is representational language of a process we could never understand. How could man ever hope to understand the ways of the Creator?

Ah ... so we have some point of agreement. \:\) I agree that "we could never understand" how the Creator made this world.

Does that mean, though, that we need to reject Genesis 1 as a historical account because we cannot understand how God did it?

Do you know how Jesus raised people from the dead?

Do you believe that he raised people from the dead?

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #95443
02/08/08 06:12 PM
02/08/08 06:12 PM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
I'm here to help people understand that it's not the "dogma" that matters. It's GOD. In fact, nothing else matters. I don't have all the answers, only God does. I've stopped looking to PEOPLE for answers. I ask God.

And when we talk, He tells me the answers.


Do you accept what God says in His written word?

Does he tell you things that contradict the biblical record?

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #95444
02/08/08 06:20 PM
02/08/08 06:20 PM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
IF you could all just take a minute, and step back. Look objectively at the church we have created. Is it REALLY bringing people closer to christ? Are people more happy inside the church than outside of it?

By my observation, Yes! Those who have joined our church the last couple years definitely testify to the fact -- in spite of the fact that they have joined a bunch of imperfect people.
 Quote:
We certainly don't NEED the church, God even say's so. So why have it?

Where does God say so?

And I'm really curious where you got all that "information" we are supposed to "look at."

(Not saying the church is perfect, nor denying the problems. But the overall picture I see is very different from what you see. I suppose it depends on what you're looking for.)

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: vastergotland] #95445
02/08/08 06:24 PM
02/08/08 06:24 PM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
God did not create dinosaurs? Who else in this universe has the creative power to creat them then? Scripture says that God created everything that was created through the Word/Jesus. Dinosaurs existed so either God did not bring all sorts of animals on the ark or they died out after the event.

I'm with you on this. (Hey can you give us a short form of your forum name? The full one is rather long!)

One of our Adventist scientists, Elaine Kennedy, has specialized in the study of dinosaurs. And there is definite evidence of dinosaurs after the flood. A couple dinosaurs (or more) on the ark would not be a problem. They hatched from eggs and thus started out quite small. They probably would have survived just fine for a year on hay. Genesis didn't specify that all the animals on the ark had to be at their maximum size. ;\)

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Inga] #95446
02/08/08 06:30 PM
02/08/08 06:30 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
You could call me Thomas.

Baby crocodiles live their first years on insects. Maybe that would be true for dinosaurs aswell?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Inga] #95452
02/08/08 07:32 PM
02/08/08 07:32 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
 Quote:
God did not create dinosaurs? Who else in this universe has the creative power to creat them then? Scripture says that God created everything that was created through the Word/Jesus. Dinosaurs existed so either God did not bring all sorts of animals on the ark or they died out after the event.


I'm with you on this. (Hey can you give us a short form of your forum name? The full one is rather long!)

One of our Adventist scientists, Elaine Kennedy, has specialized in the study of dinosaurs. And there is definite evidence of dinosaurs after the flood. A couple dinosaurs (or more) on the ark would not be a problem. They hatched from eggs and thus started out quite small. They probably would have survived just fine for a year on hay. Genesis didn't specify that all the animals on the ark had to be at their maximum size.

I think Mike is referring to what Ellen White says in these passages:

Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. {3SG 75.2}

There were a class of very large animals which perished at the flood. God knew that the strength of man would decrease, and these mammoth animals could not be controlled by feeble man. {4aSG 121.2}

It's interesting that the extinction of the dinosaurs is a mystery which has intrigued scientists ever since the first dinosaur fossils were discovered. There are many theories to explain their extinction.

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