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Re: Not under the law but under grace #9562
12/21/02 08:31 AM
12/21/02 08:31 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
“Who has saved us and called us to a holy life – not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” – 2 Timothy 1:9,10.

By destroying death Christ had given men’s life back once and for all, there must be no single law that stands that has the jurisdiction over men and has the legal right to judge and condemn men with death when they break it, otherwise Christ die in vain and he is not coming back to redeem men again.

His work of redemption was accomplished, that saves men by justifying them once and for all (Hebrew 9:23-28; 10:9,10,14)) for a new life (Romans 3:23,24). What left for God to do is to recreate man back in his nature, through the work of the Spirit that “shed abroad the love of God in our hearts” – Romans 5:5. This needs faith since only through faith you would be in Christ and his Spirit in you that make you will bore much fruit (2 Corinthians 1:21,22; Ephesians 1:13; 3:16-19; John 15:1-5), which is fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22,23).

This relationship doesn’t need the law, because the “good deeds” that is righteous deeds before God is the deeds of LOVE (love to our fellowman) and that is fruit of the Spirit, not your own deeds that is polluted with self-love. Since it is the Spirit that “works in you to do the willing and the doing of God” (Philippians 2:13), there is no law needed. The Spirit will do as he pleases to recreate you back in the nature of God, to make you have love to your fellowman. He doesn’t need your help to obey a written law as an external guidance to live righteously because this obedience that comes from your desire (self-love) is in contrary with what the Spirit desire. His desire is to change your self-loving heart to the love of God (shed abroad the love of God) that fulfils the law demands in all aspects. Your desire is to obey a written law and live righteously according to it but by doing it your deeds doesn’t fulfill the law demands, thus, it is in contrary with the Spirit desire. Either you live by the Spirit that means the Spirit controls your life and bear fruits of the Spirit, or you live by the flesh (your desire) that means you control your own life (Romans 8:5-9).

In His love

James S

[ December 21, 2002, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: James Saptenno ]

Re: Not under the law but under grace #9563
12/21/02 08:34 AM
12/21/02 08:34 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Therefore the Scripture said that obedience to the letter of the law only increases your transgressions (Romans 5:20) because it is true that all what you yourself can do is fulfilling the demands of the letter, which is a legalistic righteousness only and does not touch the intent of the law – love that seeks no self. This clarify another passage of the Scripture: “The law is not based on faith…” – Galatians 3:12, keeping it only fulfils the letter of the law, but through faith and by the Spirit you fulfill the righteous demands of the law.

Therefore the letter of the law written on stone tablets is a law that kills, it ministry (serving it) only brought condemnation and death and not righteousness that brings life. It is not the fault of the law, it is our fault, the weakness of the flesh (Romans 8:3). This made the law could not justify us and gives us life, on the contrary, only condemnation we receive. “All who rely on observing the law are under curse, for it is written “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law” – Galatians 3:10.

Therefore only through faith and a walks after the Spirit we might fulfill the law demands (Romans 8:4) because the righteousness we obtain is a “righteousness that comes from God” (the love of God that was sheds abroad in our hearts by the Spirit) – Romans 3:21; “a righteousness that comes by faith” – Romans 1:17; 3:22. Just as Adam, Abel, Enoch, Lot, Abraham, Sarah, those saints who were not under the law.

Therefore Gentiles believers are not under the law that requires obedience in order sin that is our self-love nature would not be in control (Romans 6:14) and to set us free from the law condemnation that would surely be our part if we were under the jurisdiction of the law that requires our obedience.

Therefore you would not find any passage in the Scripture or the Gospel of Christ saying that in Christ there is no condemnation from the law. This is only man’s interpretation of Scripture, which is an error.

What Romans 8:1-4 gives us based on Paul presentation in Romans 5-7 is that in Christ there is no condemnation because we live by faith and walks after the Spirit that bore fruits of the Spirit “LOVE” that fulfils the law demands. But if we obey the law and were under its jurisdiction, the law will condemn us since we could not perform righteousness required by the law due to the weakness of our flesh.

In His love

James S

Re: Not under the law but under grace #9564
12/22/02 09:12 AM
12/22/02 09:12 AM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
1st John 2:
1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 ¶ Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

**********************

This topic seems at an impasse, and can not do more than keep restating positions. Unless it proves otherwise it is now closed. Try a different topic.

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