Can sinning with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit be overcome in this life.


Dr. Desmond Ford basic premise as I remember the debate was that he does not believe that all sinning can be overcome in this life—either with or without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Only certain sins can be overcome, thus the 'other' sins by extension are permissivable or allowable since they are impulsive rather than premeditated.

But people take this to mean that these 'sins' are not really "hard sins" or "iniquity", but just part of being in a sinful world. Is that correct according to scripture? Or does the Bible teach that sinning can be overcome, and if so, how?


Here is the statement I came across that led to the question...
"Basic to Ford’s understanding of the subject of character perfection is his idea that Scripture distinguishes two kinds of sins. One kind is designated by one or more of the following adjectives; “willful,” ‘deliberate,” “cherished” or presumptuous.” The second class of sins, sometimes referred to as hasty-impulsive sinning, is something else again. As an example, angry words, or sudden outbursts of temper, would probably fall into this category. It will be his aim or goal to eliminate them insofar as is “humanly possible” [to whatever degree he can do it by himself]. But he never reaches that goal in this life, according to the “new theology” (i.e., new to Seventh-day Adventists). Consequently, according to Ford, he will need incessant pardon for these sins right up to the moment of glorification...."

http://www.sdadefend.com/sdadefend-o...der/Paxton.htm

How would this idea be presented in Ford's own words I wonder?

Yes, the Bible does teach that born again believers can, and must, cease sinning. Here are a few sample texts (which also explain the "how"):

Romans
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 jOHN
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The root of sin is unbelief. Without addressing the root, I think it's inevitable that sinning continues.

So with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit our hearts and minds are cleansed and we are reborn in the Spirit and have the mind of Christ?

That is correct and Gods love resonating withing us eliminates many of the things that lead us into sin, such as envy, prejudice, coveting, lust, anger, hatred, etc.. and this causes many of the 'impulsive sins' or 'sins of ommission' which some try to add to the equation.

I am more inclined to believe that when self dies we are born again and then the Holy Spirit begins empowering us from within to imitate the holy example of Jesus. Here's the formula, the sequence:

Isaiah
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

First - Cease to do evil (crucify self, the old man)
Second - Learn to do well (imitate the holy example of Jesus)

2 Corinthians
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Peter
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

MM, is there room in the formula for the cross, the love of God, or faith?

But is any of it from self, or all the Holy Spirit's transformation after we are led to accept that path...?

Pardon my butting in, please, but two questions regarding this question. One is, what exactly are you asking? Two is, is it possible to answer the question, as asked, in any other way than that it is not from self?