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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Rick H]
#96393
03/06/08 11:44 PM
03/06/08 11:44 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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What does that mean? "presenting ourselves to God" (sorry I'm not getting it; it sounds interesting).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Tom]
#96399
03/07/08 12:01 AM
03/07/08 12:01 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,219
Florida, USA
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If we choose to respond, then we can take credit for our salvation which my guys didnt like, and if the Spirit moves us to respond, then I felt we are just 'robots being programmed' for 'salvation' which left out freewill. So we came together and went over it a bit, and if out of freewill we 'present ourselves to God' in faith and let the Holy Spirit do its work, it brings what we felt was the missing factor, belief or faith.....
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Abraham Justified by Faith 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a] 4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Rick H]
#96441
03/07/08 05:19 AM
03/07/08 05:19 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If we choose to respond, then we can take credit for our salvation which my guys didnt like, and if the Spirit moves us to respond, then I felt we are just 'robots being programmed' for 'salvation' which left out freewill. So we came together and went over it a bit, and if out of freewill we 'present ourselves to God' in faith and let the Holy Spirit do its work, it brings what we felt was the missing factor, belief or faith..... If you are in need of funds to pay a debt, and I offer to give you the money you need, would it make any sense for you to credit for that? I'm not understanding under what logic one could take credit for one's salvation by accepting the offer of a free gift. Regarding presenting yourself to God out of your free will, why would you do that? Wouldn't it only be as a response to the wooing of the Holy Spirit?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Rick H]
#96448
03/07/08 01:06 PM
03/07/08 01:06 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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I am reading Bonhoeffers "Dicipleship" presently. I think if the people you are writing about Richard, were to gain the understanding about following God as Bonhoeffer is presenting, they would either become much different chirstians or cese to be such at all.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: vastergotland]
#96454
03/07/08 02:48 PM
03/07/08 02:48 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Aren't we talking about two different aspects of salvation: 1) Justified by faith in the work of Christ on Calvary, and 2) Sanctified through faith that works by love and purifies the soul.
Redemption--O how much is comprehended in the word! All who will consent to be redeemed are uplifted and sanctified, redeemed through Jesus Christ from all commonness and earthliness, and enabled to cooperate with God in the great work of salvation. {TMK 47.4}
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The heavenly intelligences can cooperate with him who is seeking, not to exalt self, but to save souls. {ML 332.5}
Do not settle down in Satan's easy chair, and say that there is no use, you cannot cease to sin, that there is no power in you to overcome. There is no power in you apart from Christ, but it is your privilege to have Christ abiding in your heart by faith, and He can overcome sin in you, when you cooperate with His efforts. {OHC 76.5}
Never leave the impression on the mind that there is little or nothing to do on the part of man; but rather teach man to cooperate with God, that he may be successful in overcoming. {1SM 381.3}
Let no one say that your works have nothing to do with your rank and position before God. In the judgment the sentence pronounced is according to what has been done or to what has been left undone (Matt. 25:34-40). {1SM 381.4}
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96473
03/07/08 07:45 PM
03/07/08 07:45 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Yes, it would be as a response to the wooing of the Holy Spirit, but it takes out what we felt was the 'self pride' over salvation.
You've seen it where some people go around with much pride of self and 'claim' they are saved and they did it themselves by 'accepting Christ' yet their lives are unchanged, and they are just as sinful and empty of love as before.... Yes, sure. This is evidence of not being converted. Either such a one was not converted in the first place, or has fallen away. Pride and self are tough foes. It takes the melting love of God revealed through Jesus Christ to overcome these foes.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96486
03/07/08 10:15 PM
03/07/08 10:15 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Aren't we talking about two different aspects of salvation: 1) Justified by faith in the work of Christ on Calvary, and 2) Sanctified through faith that works by love and purifies the soul.
Not sure, Bonhoeffer put it like this, Only the one who beliefs obeys, and only the one who obeys believe. It is necessary to separate the two only to point out that salvation is by faith alone through grace alone. It is equally necessary not to separate the two chronologically, saying that one precedes the other. He writes that just as faith is a prerequisite for obedience, so is obedience a prerequiseite for faith. We are to be obedient regarding a concrete word, just like Jesus called Matthew saying, follow me. Had Matthew not stood up and followed, he would not have beleived. This is part of the topic made in the chapter "call to follow Christ". Redemption--O how much is comprehended in the word! All who will consent to be redeemed are uplifted and sanctified, redeemed through Jesus Christ from all commonness and earthliness, and enabled to cooperate with God in the great work of salvation. {TMK 47.4}
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The heavenly intelligences can cooperate with him who is seeking, not to exalt self, but to save souls. {ML 332.5}
Do not settle down in Satan's easy chair, and say that there is no use, you cannot cease to sin, that there is no power in you to overcome. There is no power in you apart from Christ, but it is your privilege to have Christ abiding in your heart by faith, and He can overcome sin in you, when you cooperate with His efforts. {OHC 76.5}
Never leave the impression on the mind that there is little or nothing to do on the part of man; but rather teach man to cooperate with God, that he may be successful in overcoming. {1SM 381.3}
Let no one say that your works have nothing to do with your rank and position before God. In the judgment the sentence pronounced is according to what has been done or to what has been left undone (Matt. 25:34-40). {1SM 381.4}
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Does God Choose or does Man... ?
[Re: vastergotland]
#96501
03/08/08 04:53 AM
03/08/08 04:53 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Not sure, Bonhoeffer put it like this, Only the one who beliefs obeys, and only the one who obeys believe. It is necessary to separate the two only to point out that salvation is by faith alone through grace alone. It is equally necessary not to separate the two chronologically, saying that one precedes the other. He writes that just as faith is a prerequisite for obedience, so is obedience a prerequiseite for faith. We are to be obedient regarding a concrete word, just like Jesus called Matthew saying, follow me. Had Matthew not stood up and followed, he would not have beleived. Nice summary. This is right on!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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