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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#95927
02/26/08 03:55 PM
02/26/08 03:55 PM
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Well, how do you see the following...
1)Do we desire to be righteous and to turn from sin out of self or does the Holy Spirit bring us to where we desire it.
2)What brings us to Jesus, do we of ourselves want to find Christ or are we brought to seek and find him by the Holy Spirit?
Rick
Last edited by Richard; 02/26/08 06:17 PM.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#95930
02/26/08 04:19 PM
02/26/08 04:19 PM
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MM, is there room in the formula for the cross, the love of God, or faith? Yes. The texts I posted include all of the above.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Rick H]
#95931
02/26/08 04:29 PM
02/26/08 04:29 PM
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So with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit our hearts and minds are cleansed and we are reborn in the Spirit and have the mind of Christ? I am more inclined to believe that when self dies we are born again and then the Holy Spirit begins empowering us from within to imitate the holy example of Jesus. Here's the formula, the sequence: Isaiah 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. First - Cease to do evil (crucify self, the old man) Second - Learn to do well (imitate the holy example of Jesus) 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: But is any of it from self, or all the Holy Spirit's transformation after we are led to accept that path...? We must first consent to crucify self, our old man habits of sinning, before the Holy Spirit can ascend the throne of our soul temple and begin empowering us from within to imitate the sinless example of Jesus. Of course, it is the Holy Spirit who motivates us to want to cease sinning, to want to be like Jesus. The power by which we are able to crucify our old man habits of sinning is the influence of the Holy Spirit (outside impressing). But the power by which we are able to imitate the holy example of Jesus is the indwelling Holy Spirit (inside empowering). The Holy Spirit cannot empower us from within to be like Jesus until after we crucify our old man habits of sinning and not until after we experience the miracle of rebirth. Partaking of the divine nature does not enable unconverted sinners to cease sinning; rather, it empowers born again believers to be like Jesus, to do those things that are pleasing to our heavenly Father.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#95944
02/26/08 05:24 PM
02/26/08 05:24 PM
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MM, is there room in the formula for the cross, the love of God, or faith?
Yes. The texts I posted include all of the above. This is pretty obscure. Could you clarify please? How does the cross, the love of God, and faith fit in your formula? Why do you not feel that it is necessary that these elements be explicitly spelled out? I don't see how any formula which does not explicitly emphasize the love of God, especially as revealed on the cross, and faith as a heart response to such love, can succeed.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#95978
02/27/08 02:07 PM
02/27/08 02:07 PM
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Tom, here are the scripture texts I posted: Romans
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1 John
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Isaiah
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
2 Corinthians
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
1 Peter
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Do any of these support what you are asking? do they include the cross, the love of God, and faith in Jesus Christ? If not, can you please post passages which do. Thank you.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96071
02/29/08 02:07 PM
02/29/08 02:07 PM
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I think rather than posting passages, understanding the concepts is the important thing. You presented a theory, a formula, for overcoming sin which said nothing, as far as I could tell, about the love of God, faith, or the cross.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96082
02/29/08 06:29 PM
02/29/08 06:29 PM
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Here's what I posted: I am more inclined to believe that when self dies we are born again and then the Holy Spirit begins empowering us from within to imitate the holy example of Jesus. Here's the formula, the sequence:
Isaiah
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
2 Corinthians
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
1 Peter
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Romans
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1 John
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
First - Cease to do evil (crucify self, the old man)
Second - Learn to do well (imitate the holy example of Jesus) The cross, faith in Jesus, and the love of God - plus, the law, grace, mercy, pardon, forgiveness, atonement, intercession, justification, sanctification, glorification, righteousness, obedience, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperance - are inherent in the formula. In other words, ceasing to do evil (crucify self, the old man) and learning to do well (imitating the holy example of Jesus) is made possible by and through the cross, faith in Jesus, the love of God, the law, grace, mercy, pardon, forgiveness, atonement, intercession, justification, sanctification, glorification, righteousness, obedience, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, and temperance. Again, do you know any text that includes all of these things? That is, a text that spells out every detail, word for word, the formula of salvation?
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96096
02/29/08 08:00 PM
02/29/08 08:00 PM
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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This seems overly complicated MM. You've got a whole long list of words, but I don't understand how you think this works. I'm not looking for a detailed formula that spells every detail out, but an explanation which touches on the major points.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96124
03/01/08 11:58 PM
03/01/08 11:58 PM
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I agree. The formula should be simplified. How about this one?
Isaiah
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Of course, understand that inherent within this formula is the long list of important things named above, that is, the cross, faith in Jesus, the love of God, law and grace, mercy and forgiveness, justice, atonement, intercession, justification, sanctification, glorification, righteousness, obedience, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, and temperance.
In light of the title of this thread, how would you state the formula? Which text would you use to support it?
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96130
03/02/08 01:32 AM
03/02/08 01:32 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It seems to me you're making this unnecessarily complicated. You keep speaking of a "long list of important things." I don't think there's a necessity for a long list.
Regarding a text I would use, John 3:16 is one that comes to mind.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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