HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,223
Posts196,066
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 21
Rick H 16
Daryl 2
October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,644
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
4 registered members (Karen Y, Dina, dedication, 1 invisible), 1,808 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 18 of 47 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 46 47
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96360
03/06/08 05:16 PM
03/06/08 05:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}

This statement does not necessarily mean that Jesus demonstrated everything there is to know about God. It simply says everything we need to know or can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus.

This statement leaves room for things about God that are hard to understand, that Jesus chose not to reveal because we cannot comprehend it at this time. Some of these things Jesus said the Holy Spirit would make clear after His departure. But other things will not be made clear until well into eternity.

John
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.
16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.

1 Corinthians
13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Hebrews
5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

2 Peter
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Perhaps one of those things about God that Jesus chose not to reveal while He was here is the fact God withdraws His protection and gives evil angels permission to destroy sinners when circumstances force Him. It is called His strange act".

Isaiah
28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as [in] mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as [in] the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

 Quote:
God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. [Isaiah 28:21 quoted] To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act.... By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

The forbearance that God has exercised toward the wicked, emboldens men in transgression; but their punishment will be none the less certain and terrible for being long delayed. [Isaiah 28:21 quoted] To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act.... While He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who have become hardened in sin. {PP 628.1}

Apparently, we do not need to understand, not can we understand, the "strange act" of God as evidenced by the fact Jesus chose not to reveal this aspect of God's character and kingdom.

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #96364
03/06/08 05:34 PM
03/06/08 05:34 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
This statement does not necessarily mean that Jesus demonstrated everything there is to know about God. It simply says everything we need to know or can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus.


I'll respond to the rest of your post later, as I have time, but for now, what's the difference between "demonstrate" and "reveal"?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96398
03/06/08 11:54 PM
03/06/08 11:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
As I used them above they mean the same thing. I mean it as opposed to Jesus merely talking about it (i.e., in the future He will withdraw His protection and give evil angels permission to destroy Jews in Jerusalem).

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #96436
03/07/08 02:42 AM
03/07/08 02:42 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
If "demonstrate" means the same thing as "reveal" then what you said becomes this:

 Quote:
This statement does not necessarily mean that Jesus revealed everything there is to know about God. It simply says everything we need to know or can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus.


This doesn't seem to make any sense. In the above, you're saying that the statement that Jesus revealed everything there is to know about God does not necessarily mean that Jesus revealed everything there is to know about God.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96442
03/07/08 05:26 AM
03/07/08 05:26 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
This statement leaves room for things about God that are hard to understand, that Jesus chose not to reveal because we cannot comprehend it at this time. Some of these things Jesus said the Holy Spirit would make clear after His departure. But other things will not be made clear until well into eternity.


I'm not seeing this. That statement says that "all" that man needs to know, or can know, of God was revealed. It doesn't say "all we can know of God, except things that are difficult to understand." How are you reading into the statement a qualification? It seems as unqualified as it could possibly be.

 Quote:
Apparently, we do not need to understand, not can we understand, the "strange act" of God as evidenced by the fact Jesus chose not to reveal this aspect of God's character and kingdom.


I would argue the reverse, which is that since all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus, then He must have revealed this. Either that, or what you're suggesting is not something we can know of God.

Really, the statement "all" man can know of God was revealed by the life and character of His Son, doesn't allow for any other interpretation, right? What you're suggesting would make "all" not mean "all," but "some" or "much."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96455
03/07/08 03:10 PM
03/07/08 03:10 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
In the Bible, the word "all" is often qualified. I'm sure you know what I mean. In the case of her statement in 8T 286 I think it is possible that "all" refers to those things we can, in our present state of dullness, grasp and comprehend. But it cannot possibly refer to everything there is to know about God for the simple reason eternity isn't long enough to know everything about God.

There is too much to know about God for Jesus to have demonstrated "all" of it during His short sojourn here. Certainly you can agree with this insight. She said Jesus revealed everything we "need" to know, which is also everything we "can" know at this time. Of course, everything we "can" know is everything we "need" to know in order to get saved and to stay saved, that is, to be like Jesus. Whatever Jesus did not demonstrate while here in the flesh was, evidently, not needful to know for salvation.

Remember, Jesus said, I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. So, what did He leave unsaid, unrevealed? Obviously there were certain things Jesus could not demonstrate while here in the flesh because the disciples, and we, were/are unable to bear it, unable to grasp it. Could it be that one of those things is the "strange act" of God spoken of in the Bible, and demonstrated throughout the OT, and prophesied in the NT?

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #96462
03/07/08 05:19 PM
03/07/08 05:19 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I don't dispute the fact that we will continually be learning new things about God throughout eternity, but I believe whatever we learn was revealed in the life and character of Christ, as the EGW statement says.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96560
03/09/08 12:16 AM
03/09/08 12:16 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, I find it hard to believe that you, of all people, are content to believe that Jesus demonstrated (revealed) everything there is to know about God. What about Jesus' statement, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #96565
03/09/08 01:03 AM
03/09/08 01:03 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I've quoted the statement often from Ellen White. I'll trying quoting the same thought from a different author, and see if that makes sense to you.

 Quote:
Paul says, "in [Christ] all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him God was pleased to reconcil to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross" (Col 1:19-20) Whereas certain false teachers of his day were depicting Christ as one aspect of the display of God's fullness, Paul insists, as we have alread seen, that "the whole fullness of deity" dwells in Christ (Col 2:9). No aspect of God's fullness was withheld from the incarnation. All we can and need to know about God is found in Christ, for God fully dwells in and is revealed in Christ. And the cerntral purpose of this complete indwelling was to "reconcile to Himself all things": to reverse the separation of the Fall and to consummate the purpose of creation by dying on the cross. (Is God to Blame, by Greg Boyd, emphasis mine).


I find it amazing that a non-SDA can see these things, but perhaps I shouldn't be, as these thoughts are all in Scripture. I just hadn't seen anyone not familiar with the Spirit of Prophecy present them before.

Perhaps this explanation makes sense?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #96600
03/09/08 05:36 PM
03/09/08 05:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, it is interesting to find the same insight expressed by a non-SDA author. I hope you realize I am not arguing against it. It's just that I understand it differently than you do.

But let's see if we can move on. Maybe an example of Jesus demonstrating the aspect of God in question will settle the matter. Do you know of one?

Page 18 of 47 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 46 47

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 10/15/24 12:56 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 10/14/24 12:13 PM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by dedication. 10/13/24 12:51 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 10/10/24 12:36 PM
The October 7th Massacre and Zechariah 9 Prophecy
by dedication. 10/08/24 05:41 PM
When they say Peace and Safety...
by Rick H. 10/01/24 11:56 AM
Third Quarter 2024 The Book of Mark
by Rick H. 09/28/24 10:02 AM
Creation of the Sabbath at the Beginning.
by dedication. 09/22/24 02:05 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by kland. 10/15/24 05:21 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by kland. 10/15/24 05:12 PM
What Should Be Our Response to the "Sunday Laws"?
by dedication. 10/13/24 01:08 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 10/11/24 02:16 PM
Are The Prophecies Important?
by dedication. 10/08/24 04:18 PM
The Beast and the Image Beast
by Rick H. 10/05/24 04:40 AM
A campaign against the church
by dedication. 10/03/24 11:50 PM
Why Is Papacy Uniting COVID/Climate Change
by kland. 10/03/24 12:06 PM
The 1260 Year Prophecy & The Roman Catholic Church
by dedication. 09/26/24 06:13 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1