This is a really strange question. Why are you asking this? I'm sure you know the answer to your question.



I can answer this, but I'll delay for a moment. Do you really not think that polygamy violates the seventh commandment?



I wasn't talking about myself. I said if there were sins that God was winking at today, we wouldn't know about them, since He's winking at them. So I could hardly point out such a sin.



I said:





ok



Certainly God permits such things. They happen all the time. If God didn't permit these things, they wouldn't happen.



This is very confusing. What are you talking about?



I was only addressing 1). Regarding why the Holy Spirit waits, sometimes people fight against the messages He sends. For example, a bit over a hundred years ago He sent a message whose specific purpose was to prepare for the coming of Christ, and people are still fighting against that message.

Regarding your last question, it depends. It's possible.

Can we drop polygamy as an example of God winking at sinful behavior nowadays? Or, do you think He still winks at it? Remember, I'm not talking about people 100 years ago, or people who have never heard of Jesus, or Laodiceans, or uninformed tribes in deep, dark continents.

I’m referring specifically to people who have been properly prepared for baptism, who have experienced the miracle of rebirth, who are SDA members in good and regular standing, who are abiding in Jesus, who are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, who are Spirit led believers.

Yes, obeying the will and law of God will cause some people to be offended. They were offended at Jesus. His righteousness drove them to madness. However, it sounds weird to me to say God "permits" this to happen. God is not arbitrary. He is not going to force people to appreciate godly Christians. Instead, He commands Christians to be loving and like Jesus. He doesn't permit it. And, the fact godliness offends certain people isn't something God "permits", as if He could simply prevent it. That's not how God operates.

So, when I ask - Are there sinful behaviors God still winks at nowadays that offend people, that cause them to despise the Gospel? - I'm not talking about godly behavior which offends people. Instead, I'm talking about things like being grouchy and grumpy and irritable; things like being impatient and short tempered and hot headed; things like being stingy and selfish and self-serving.

Does God wink at these kinds of offensive behaviors in the types of Christians I described above? In other words, can they behave in such ways without realizing they are being horribly unlike Jesus? Does the Holy Spirit allow them to go on behaving unlike Jesus without revealing it to them? If so, why? Is it because it wold discourage them?

Are there behaviors, like the ones listed above, that the types of Christians I described above, would be discouraged out of the faith if the Holy Spirit revealed it to them as sinful behavior, if He convicted them that such behavior is wrong and inexcusable?

And, if the Holy Spirit doesn't reveal it to them, and they go on behaving in a way that offends people around them, that causes them to conclude Christianity must be a joke if it can't help believers be more loving and kind and patient, is such behavior winked at because the Holy Spirit did not reveal it to them in its true light?

Your theory was that the last 6 commandments are known by instinct, that we can't ignorantly break any of them. Polygamy disproves your theory, which is why I mentioned it. Unless you want to change your theory to be something like, in the past the last 6 commandments weren't known by instinct, but now they are, whether polygamy is a sin God does not wink at anymore is irrelevant; the important point is that the theory doesn't hold water.

I'm not sure what you're getting at in the rest of the post. Based on what I've read from you in previous posts, I suspect it has to do with the idea that you've expressed that we do not become like Jesus by sinning less and less. I think our behavior is a barometer of other factors, and that the most important thing is getting God's character right. We become like the God that we worship, and if we have wrong ideas about what He is like, then we will come to take on those wrong ideas as a part of our own character. The problem isn't that the Holy Spirit neglects to reveal the truth to us, but that we don't necessarily listen to what He's telling us.

TE: Your theory was that the last 6 commandments are known by instinct, that we can't ignorantly break any of them.

MM: This is true.

TE: Polygamy disproves your theory, which is why I mentioned it.

MM: This is not true.

TE: I'm not sure what you're getting at in the rest of the post.

MM: Does God wink at these kinds of offensive behaviors in the types of Christians I described above? In other words, can they behave in such ways without realizing they are being horribly unlike Jesus? Does the Holy Spirit allow them to go on behaving unlike Jesus without revealing it to them? If so, why?

Sure it is. Polygamy is a sin. It doesn't break one of the 4 first commandments, therefore it breaks one of the last 6. It's not something known by instinct, so this disproves your theory.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The Holy Spirit cannot force us to be like Jesus. So, yes, the Holy Spirit allows us to be unlike Jesus. He can only reveal to us that which we are willing to allow Him to reveal.

I seem to recall an SOP statement which says something like God reveals truth as fast as we are willing and able to receive it (although I couldn't find it).

Our unwillingness to receive truth involves many aspects. There are few people who are open to receive any truth that God reveals. Something I find amazing about Ellen White is that she said from the age of 14 or so, as soon as God revealed what He wanted her to do, she was willing to do it.

Ellen White speaks of how God will bring us around to the same issue if we are unwilling to respond to it the first time. She doesn't say we're lost if we don't accept something God reveals to us the first time He reveals it.

Again, there's all sorts of reasons people resist truth. For example, regarding yourself, you seem reticent to receive truths revealed by Jones and Waggoner. I have no idea why that is. This doesn't mean you're lost.

TE: Sure it is. Polygamy is a sin. It doesn't break one of the 4 first commandments, therefore it breaks one of the last 6. It's not something known by instinct, so this disproves your theory.

MM: Prove it. Your saying so doesn't make it so, right? In the process, you might want to prove how incest was a sin during the early days of mankind.

---

TE: I'm not sure what you're asking here.

MM: You're not addressing my question. It is very pointed, very specific. It is not a generalize question. Here it is again:

Please bear in mind I am talking specifically about people who have been properly prepared for baptism, who have experienced the miracle of rebirth, who are SDA members in good and regular standing, who are abiding in Jesus, who are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, who are Spirit led believers.

In cases involving these specific types of people, does God wink at sinful behaviors which offend people, which cause them to conclude Christianity is a joke, which cause them to despise the Gospel? If so, why?

In cases involving these specific types of people, are they ignorant of the fact that their behavior offends people around them, that it causes them to conclude Christianity is a joke, that it causes them to despise the Gospel? If so, why?

---

TE: For example, regarding yourself, you seem reticent to receive truths revealed by Jones and Waggoner.

MM: Can you prove they wrote something that is needful for my salvation that is not also explained in the SOP?

By "prove it," I assume you mean to prove that polygamy is a sin. I'm surprised you would dispute such a thing.



Regarding your question, you're simply reposting what I said was not clear to me what you were asking, not surprisingly, did not help. If you repost it again, that won't help either. Perhaps you could rephrase what you are trying to get at.



The purpose of Jones and Waggoner's message was to prepare a people for Christ's second coming. There are things more important than simply the salvation of MM, for example, the honor and glory of Christ.

Regarding the fact that Jones and Waggoner brought us truth that she did not bring, she wrote that they brought light that we would not otherwise have had unless God had sent someone else to bring that light.

She said, to J.S. Washburn (a delegate of the 1888 GC session in Mpls.) "The Lord has given him special light on that question. I have been wanting to bring it out more clearly, but I could not have brought it out as clearly as he did. But when he brought it out at Minneapolis, I recognized it."

Also:

TE: By "prove it," I assume you mean to prove that polygamy is a sin. I'm surprised you would dispute such a thing.

MM: Have you “proved” it? If it was a sin, why did God wink at it? Where in the Bible does it say it was a sin?

---

TE: Regarding your question, you're simply reposting what I said was not clear to me what you were asking, not surprisingly, did not help. If you repost it again, that won't help either. Perhaps you could rephrase what you are trying to get at.

MM: I did rephrase it. What don’t you understand? Does God wink at the specific types of sinful behaviors in the specific types of people I’ve described?

1. In cases involving these specific types of people, does God wink at sinful behaviors which offend people, which cause them to conclude Christianity is a joke, which cause them to despise the Gospel? If so, why?

2. In cases involving these specific types of people, are they ignorant of the fact that their behavior offends people around them, that it causes them to conclude Christianity is a joke, that it causes them to despise the Gospel? If so, why?

---

TE: Regarding the fact that Jones and Waggoner brought us truth that she did not bring, she wrote that they brought light that we would not otherwise have had unless God had sent someone else to bring that light.

MM: You’ll have to do better than that, Tom. I need specific examples where J&W wrote something needful to us today that does not appear anywhere in the SOP. I am very confident I can find anything pertinent for me today in J&W in the SOP.