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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97051
03/17/08 09:08 PM
03/17/08 09:08 PM
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Lawrence, Kansas
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1.Reference = 8T 286 "All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son." 2. That's not what it means to me. Yes, the last link of sympathy was severed; but this doesn't also mean that all of the accusations he raised were settled in their minds. I think that's just what it means. This is why she quotes Revelations in saying that the devil was cast down. He no longer has any power in heaven. The GC is done. Satan is kaput. Nothing is mentioned in DA (or anywhere else that I'm aware of) about the angels still having questions. 3.The future tense is in relation to what Christ was about to do in becoming a human being. The GC was settled because Satan showed himself to be the cause of disloyalty in God's universe. This is what the issue was, and it's been settled, as the DA chapter "It Is Finished" makes clear. Your last paragraph is not dealing with the real issue, which was in regards to who was telling the truth, God or Satan. The holy angels and unfallen worlds had doubts about this until the cross. After that, the doubts were done away with, the meaning of Revelation's saying that Satan was cast down, as EGW explains in "It Is Finished". What was finished? Satan's influence to deceive; IOW, the GC was settled.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Tom]
#97056
03/18/08 12:12 AM
03/18/08 12:12 AM
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TE: Reference = 8T 286 "All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son." MM: No, I was talking about the other quote you posted without a reference. Where is that one found. The reason I ask is because it leaves out an important element which is found the quote you posted above (8T 286). --- TE: Nothing is mentioned in DA (or anywhere else that I'm aware of) about the angels still having questions. MM: According to DA 761-763 they still have questions about the law and the extermination of sinners with their sins in the lake of fire. Here it is (I’ve enumerated her statements): DA 761-763 (selected sentences)
1. The last link of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world was broken.
2. Yet Satan was not then destroyed. The angels did not even then understand all that was involved in the great controversy.
3. The principles at stake were to be more fully revealed. And for the sake of man, Satan's existence must be continued.
4. Another deception was now to be brought forward.
5. Here will come the last conflict of the great controversy between Christ and Satan.
6. That the law which was spoken by God's own voice is faulty, that some specification has been set aside, is the claim which Satan now puts forward.
7. By substituting human law for God's law, Satan will seek to control the world. This work is foretold in prophecy.
8. Men will surely set up their laws to counterwork the laws of God. They will seek to compel the consciences of others, and in their zeal to enforce these laws they will oppress their fellow men.
9. There will be but two classes.
10. Then the end will come.
11. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people.
12. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off.
13. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.
14. At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this.
15. But not so when the great controversy shall be ended.
16. Then the extermination of sin will vindicate God's love and establish His honor before a universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97063
03/18/08 01:22 AM
03/18/08 01:22 AM
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TE: Nothing is mentioned in DA (or anywhere else that I'm aware of) about the angels still having questions.
MM: According to DA 761-763 they still have questions about the law and the extermination of sinners with their sins in the lake of fire. Here it is (I’ve enumerated her statements): I checked the whole chapter, and there's nothing in that chapter that says anything about the angels having questions. There's nothing in your enumerated statements that say anything about them having questions.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Tom]
#97075
03/18/08 12:12 PM
03/18/08 12:12 PM
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TE: I checked the whole chapter, and there's nothing in that chapter that says anything about the angels having questions. There's nothing in your enumerated statements that say anything about them having questions.
MM: Please consider the following insight:
2. Yet Satan was not then destroyed. The angels did not even then understand all that was involved in the great controversy.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97076
03/18/08 12:15 PM
03/18/08 12:15 PM
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TE: Regarding the first point, the statement says, "All that man can know about God was revealed in the life and character of His Son." This *is* a "Thus saith the Lord."
MM: Tom, do you have a reference for this quote? I can't find it in my database. Thank you.
TE: Reference = 8T 286 "All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son."
MM: No, I was talking about the other quote you posted without a reference. Where is that one found? The reason I ask is because it leaves out an important element which is found the quote you posted above (8T 286).
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97083
03/18/08 03:11 PM
03/18/08 03:11 PM
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Yet Satan was not then destroyed. The angels did not even then understand all that was involved in the great controversy. I've been mentioning this. The holy angels had things to learn. However, the questions they had had were resolved at the cross, as EGW explains in detail. The questions that they had had to do with who was right, Satan or God. The loyal angels chose to take the side of God, but there was some doubt as to who was right, because Satan was very clever in hiding his true character and designs. But the cross made all that clear. Satan was cast down, as she points out, because he had no more influence with the holy angels, because he had revealed his true character, thus answering any questions they had about who was right.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Tom]
#97121
03/19/08 03:21 PM
03/19/08 03:21 PM
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Tom, I'm still waiting for that reference. Please.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97146
03/19/08 07:39 PM
03/19/08 07:39 PM
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8T 286. Here is the actual quote: All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. The quote I cited without a reference was from memory. It was not meant to be taken as a direct quote, which is why I didn't include the reference, but I was simply indicating what quote I was talking about. Since I had already quoted it dozens of times, and since we were talking about it, I thought that would be sufficient.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97269
03/24/08 04:39 AM
03/24/08 04:39 AM
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I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if I'm mentioning something already brought up.
This comes from The Story of Redemption, pg 415: My attention was again directed to the earth. The wicked had been destroyed, and their dead bodies were lying on its surface. The wrath of God in the seven last plagues had been visited upon the inhabitants of the earth, causing them to gnaw their tongues from pain and to curse God. The false shepherds had been the signal objects of Jehovah's wrath. Their eyes had consumed away in their holes, and their tongues in their mouths, while they stood upon their feet. After the saints had been delivered by the voice of God, the wicked multitude turned their rage upon one another. The earth seemed to be deluged with blood, and dead bodies were from one end of it to the other. {SR 415.1}
It is interesting that those slain by the brightness of Christ 2nd coming still had enough life in them to turn their rage upon one another. What's also interesting is that the same situation occurs at the end of the 1000 years. Very similar also to what happened to Baal's prophets on Mt. Carmel.
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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"?
[Re: Alpendave]
#97298
03/25/08 01:31 PM
03/25/08 01:31 PM
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Tom, the sentence you placed in quotation marks left out an important part, namely, "All that man needs to know or can know ...." Jesus demonstrated what we "can know" about God's kingdom and character, which also happens to be all we "need" to know. Everything else there is to know about God was left for later.
So, what were the determining factors that dictated what Jesus demonstrated while He was here, what we needed to know, and what He left unrevealed for us to discover later on?
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