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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96755
03/12/08 01:42 AM
03/12/08 01:42 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If God is physically present everywhere, how does He veil His glory? By not revealing His goodness in its fullness. How does He prevent it from consuming us with our sins now? Same. Also, how does He prevent the truth from consuming us with our sins now? Same.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Tom]
#96779
03/12/08 03:37 PM
03/12/08 03:37 PM
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96794
03/12/08 06:02 PM
03/12/08 06:02 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Yes, His goodness. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? (Romans 2:4) The revelation of His goodness is meant to lead us to repentance, but if we refuse to repent, we cannot bear His goodness. The revelation of God's goodness simultaneously reveals the truth about ourselves, which is a truth we cannot bear, apart from the grace of God. If we refuse the grace of God, then that truth will do us in.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Tom]
#96823
03/13/08 12:26 AM
03/13/08 12:26 AM
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TE: If we refuse the grace of God, then that truth will do us in.
MM: Is it the truth or sin that does them in?
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96830
03/13/08 02:56 AM
03/13/08 02:56 AM
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Active Member 2012
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TE: If we refuse the grace of God, then that truth will do us in.
MM: Is it the truth or sin that does them in? This is similar to where we read that the light of the glory of God, which gives life to the righteous, slays the wicked. The light of the glory of God should do what? Give life. It does give life for whom? The righteous. It slays whom? The wicked. Why? Because of sin. Let's say the air is poisonous, and someone breaths in this poison and dies. I am maintaining that the poison caused the persons death. You are arguing something akin to "No, it's not the poison that caused the person's death, but the combination of poison and breathing." Well, breathing is a perfectly natural thing, that should not result in death. Breathing is designed to give life. Death only resulted because of poison. Similarly, the light of the glory of God, God's goodness, is designed to give life. And it does give life for all, except those who choose to breathe in poison.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Tom]
#96850
03/13/08 04:11 PM
03/13/08 04:11 PM
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Your example implies that sinners would not suffer the ill effects of sin if they simply avoided the undiluted glory (goodness, truth) of God.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96875
03/14/08 03:26 AM
03/14/08 03:26 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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My example implies that a person who dies by breathing poison would not suffer the ill affects of poison if they simply avoided breathing.
Being around God is as natural as breathing. We were created to be in His presence. That being around someone as nice as God would cause someone to die should awaken one as to what an awful thing sin is.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Tom]
#96887
03/14/08 03:25 PM
03/14/08 03:25 PM
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So, then, we agree that God must be present in His undiluted glory, goodness, truth in order for resurrected sinners to suffer in proportion to their sinfulness before they die the second death in the lake of fire. Being a sinner and being in the presence of God is a deadly combination.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96905
03/14/08 05:47 PM
03/14/08 05:47 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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First of all, how can God not be present somewhere? Secondly, no, we are not agreeing. As I stated: Let's say the air is poisonous, and someone breaths in this poison and dies. I am maintaining that the poison caused the persons death. You are arguing something akin to "No, it's not the poison that caused the person's death, but the combination of poison and breathing."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption?
[Re: Tom]
#96925
03/14/08 07:54 PM
03/14/08 07:54 PM
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So, then, we agree that God must be present in His undiluted glory, goodness, truth in order for resurrected sinners to suffer in proportion to their sinfulness before they die the second death in the lake of fire. Being a sinner and being in the presence of God is a deadly combination. Please note that this statement qualifies something you agree with, namely, that God is omnipresent in a veiled, diluted way so that His glory, truth, goodness doesn't cause sinners to suffer and die prematurely. Let's say the air is poisonous, and someone breaths in this poison and dies. I am maintaining that the poison caused the persons death. You are arguing something akin to "No, it's not the poison that caused the person's death, but the combination of poison and breathing." They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, right? Not breathing causes death, too. Not a healthy scenario no matter how you slice it.
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