There are 1000 unique endorsements by Ellen of J&W? Has someone made a compilation of those quotes? It seems like it would be a fairly thick book to bonk J&W's critics in the head with.

Yes, someone has made a compilation of the quotes. I might be able to get it, if there's an interest.

I know of a book which has a "best of" list of endorsements.

Also, if one simply reads through the 1888 Materials that the Ellen White estate released (this is on line), one can see statement after statement urging those to whom she was writing to pay attention to the message, etc.

True. Nevertheless, Jesus thought it was necessary to give us the spirit of prophecy through Ellen White. There must have been a need, otherwise, He would not have bothered, right?

T: Regarding the understanding of it, in general, if one can teach a subject more clearly than another, one understands it better, although there can be exceptions to this. In the case of Waggoner, it is clearly simply from reading what he wrote that he had a much broader understanding of the subject than EGW had. For example, Waggoner wrote, "The Everlasting Covenant" which has nearly 400 pages in it, all on how the Gospel is present in the first 5 books of Scripture. Ellen White could not have written a book like that.

MM: That may be one of the reasons why I find J&W hard to understand - they used too many words to establish the point. The beautiful thing about the SOP is that Jesus can convey the same thought in fewer words. The Bible was written that way, too.

Tom, I agree that J&W shared important truths. But I prefer to read those same truths in the SOP. Enough said.

Show me in the Bible one place where God condemns polygamy.

Again, what about the law that required a brother to marry his brother's widow? It leads to polygamy, right?

We've deviated a long ways from my original questions - Does God wink at sinful behaviors (in the specific people I dscribed) that offend ordinary people, that cause them to conclude Christianity is a joke, that cause them to despise the Gospel?

And when Tom says the same thing about J&W?

Regarding your first post, what Thomas wrote covers things fine, so I won't comment beyond noting this.



We've been discussing the OC for while on a different thread. Paul says the OC is like Abraham's experience with Hagar. God gave Abraham a promise, but rather than believe His promise, Abraham tried to accomplish what God had promised by his own efforts. This is exactly what the COI did; instead of accepting the righteousness of Christ as a promise, as Abraham did, they tried to accomplish by their own efforts what God had promised, which is why Paul's choice of Hagar as representing the OC was such a good choice.

Now this is all very clear in Waggoner. Reading what Waggoner wrote, there's no doubt that this is what Scripture teaches, nor that Waggoner was saying what I just presented. But when we read the SOP, some think she is saying one thing, and some another.

Some thing she taught that Christ took our fallen nature. Some think she taught that Christ took the nature of Adam before the fall.

Some think she taught that salvation was by faith and works. Some think she taught that salvation was by faith which works.

When it comes to righteousness by faith, there are quite a number of examples that one can come up with which are similar in nature, which demonstrate clearly that Ellen White was correct in affirming that Waggoner could teach rbf more clearly than she. Indeed, one often comes across very fundamental errors (even here) that could be avoided if one had even a basic understanding of righteousness by faith.

I'm going to try again to present a thought from J$W, this time Waggoner, with which I'm sure you will agree, and which I hope will be a blessing to you.



This whole chapter on Galatians 3 is a great read. There's very little of what Waggoner says in this chapter in the SOP. I wish there were, because I would just quote that.

God saw there was a need for our church to have a deeper understanding of righteousness by faith. Ellen White recognized what was happening, and did her work as a prophet by identifying the message which God had sent. However, she never claimed that she herself was presenting this message.

Of course, she was not presenting error in regards to justification by faith, but she did not have the insight they did. She expressed frustration in not being able to present what she knew was true. But, although unable to present it herself, she was able to recognize it as soon as she heart it.

Well, I, of course, can't make you do something you are not disposed to do. I note that when she heard Waggoner's message, every fiber of her heart said, "Amen!". I wish that those who claim to believe in her writings had hearts that responded like hers.



I can do this, but before doing so, I'm curious. Why are you asking this?



According to EGW, God never sanctioned polygamy, even once. So are you saying she's wrong?



We haven't really deviated, because I never addressed these points. I addressed only your theory that nobody can break anything in the last 6 commandments by ignorance. It looks like, so far, you need to throw out the SOP to support your theory. Is that right? You keep asking me to show that things which contradict your theory from Scripture. Does that mean that you accept that your theory doesn't work, taking into account what the SOP has said? There's no doubt from what she wrote that polygamy was a sin, right? So, if what she wrote is true, then your theory is false. Let's agree that this is the case, and then we can consider what Scripture says.

There is no evidence J&W had the spirit of prophecy. I doubt Tom claims J&W had the spirit of prophecy like Ellen White did, or like Moses, David, Peter, or John did.

Tom, you've presented polygamy as proof people can ignorantly violate the 7th commandment. You also seem to think it disproves what I've been saying about ignorance and the last 6 commandments. I agree polygamy violates the law of God. But you have yet to prove which commandment is violated. You assume it is the 7th. Where is the proof?

Again, what about the law that required a brother to marry his brother's widow? It led to polygamy, right? Is it considered "polygamy" when God ordains it? Likewise, was it considered "incest" when Adam's kids married each other?