Yep, I agree with what you say here Inga. Words to be considered by all reading this thread.

Where is the "self-focus"?

Ok, I'll bite. You've got me curious. The trap is being self-focused, right? Where did I fall into this?

Tom, the judgment is all about behavior. We cannot dismiss it so easily. By their fruits ye shall know them. Jesus will reward us in judgment according to our words and works. Behavior matters, therefore, faith in Jesus is key. The Holy Spirit labors earnestly to empower us to be like Jesus, to cease sinning, to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

From what you've posted here and there I am beginning to believe you think the Holy Spirit waits to reveal to us certain sinful behaviors until we are ready to crucify them, that we are blinded to them until the Holy Spirit makes us aware of them.

If this is truly what you believe, if I haven't misunderstood your belief, then surely there are inspired passages to support it, right? If so, then would you mind posting some of them?

Also, can you name some sinful behaviors a born again believer, who is abiding in Jesus, who is walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, can commit without realizing it misrepresents Jesus, without realizing it offends people around them, without realizing it causes people to conclude Christianity is a joke?

I don't think the issue is as simple as you are laying out. I agree with your point that faith is key. Given that faith is key, and faith is our heart response to God's love, it seems to me that our understanding God and His love is what's important.

To know God is to love Him. As we come to understand His true character, we will reflect that character in our own lives. By beholding, we become changed.

Okay, I'm seeing this about perfection in a way I havn't before. When God says we can become perfect (have no faults, sinful acts in our lives anymore, at all) He is saying it is possible; but, in fact, no one has actually accomplished that up to this day except Christ. Is that the correct meaning? In other words, perfection is possible theoretically, but hasn't actually happened in anyone, so far. Is that right?

What about Enoch?

The Bible says he walked with God, but was he actually perfect or did he have the perfect relationship of being covered by Christ's righteousness while on the journey to perfection?

Inga, yes, our focus should be on Jesus - Christ and Him crucified. Isn't that what John meant when he wrote - "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." If they are not sinning, what are they doing instead? Even Jesus referred to the fact He did not sin. Not sinning is part of being perfect. Not sinning is important.

But it is also true that being perfect includes growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. Not sinning is not righteousness. Righteousness is right doing. It means being like Jesus, growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit.

Jesus was born perfect, but He also became perfect. So too, we are born again perfect, and as we grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit we become perfect. Like Jesus, we begin perfect and we become perfect - "more and more unto the perfect day."

Eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our ability and potential to become more and more like Jesus, to grow in grace, to mature in the fruits of the Spirit. We do not become more and more like Jesus by becoming less and less like Satan. Instead, we become more and more like Jesus by growing more and more in grace, by maturing more and more in the fruits of the Spirit.

And, the good news is, we will never stop becoming more and more like Jesus. Throughout eternity there always be room for us to grow and mature. But such growth does not involve gradually outgrowing sinful behavior. The opposite is true. Such growth, which begins here and continues throughout eternity, involves becoming more and more like Jesus.

Do you see what I mean? Being perfect begins now, when we experience the miracle of rebirth, and we will continue to become more and more perfect throughout eternity. In essence, therefore, there is no stopping place, no point we reach when we're finally as perfect as we can be.

Again, not sinning is not the goal; instead, being like Jesus is the goal. Yes, in order to be like Jesus we must behold Him, we must spend quality time with Him. We must not go around focusing on not sinning; instead, we must fellowship with Jesus moment by moment. Fighting the good fight of faith means striving against all odds to abide in Jesus. Those who do this do not and cannot commit a known sin - they are being perfect and becoming perfect.

Now, the question remains - What constitutes an unknown sin? What is unChristlike behavior? What does it mean to be unlike Jesus? What do people act like when they're not abiding in Jesus? What do they act like when they are abiding in Jesus?

2 Corinthians
13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Skylynx, please read my post above to Inga. Does that answer your question?