This study is for those who are asking questions about Bible prophecy and the war and for those who may not have thought that this war being fought in Iraq is anything more than just the USA meddling in world affairs again. I am posting here what I have discovered and what the Lord has revealed to me concerning this war. We have already been told that we should study the books of Daniel and Revelation.

quote:

---

Study Revelation in connection with Daniel, for history will be repeated. . . . We, with all our religious advantages, ought to know far more today than we do know. {TM 116.3}

God's Spirit has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood. When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. . . . Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . . {TM 112.1}

There is need of a much closer study of the word of God; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Christ, and that the Lord God of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how God wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . . {TM 112.2}

The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass. {TM 112.3. all emphasis mine}

---

I believe that we Seventh-day Adventists sometimes forget that "soon come to pass" must at some point become "currently taking place." In 9T there is an even more pointed and direct quote:

quote:

---

The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecy of the eleventh chapter of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfillment. Soon the scenes of trouble spoken of in the prophecies will take place. {9T 14.2}

---

Look at the last 6 verses of Daniel 11.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Those who have studied the prophecies know that when Israel, God's people were attacked by Assyria and Babylon, the enemy came from the direction of the north. The enemy to the south was Egypt. Babylon represents Catholicism and apostate Protestantism. It is the USA that will set up the image of the beast acting as the agent of the papacy, the modern king of the north. Egypt, the king of the south, did not recognize the God of heaven. Neither does Islam. Allah is NOT Jehovah. This is established in Revelation chapter 9:1-11.

*Star represents an angel: Rev. 1:19
*Satan fell like lightening from heaven: Luke 10:18
*The king over them is the "angel of the bottomless pit." See Rev. 11:7; 17:8; 20:1, 3.

There are 1 billion Catholics in the world and there are 1 billion Muslims in the world. In order for the papacy to regain world domination, as foretold in Rev. 13, she must gain control of the Muslim world. Remember that the papacy hides her true agenda and operates covertly behind the scenes to bring about her own ends. Today would be no different than in the past. While giving lip service to lamenting the current war, she is, at the very least, using it to spread her power. But Iraq has only a small percentage of the Muslim population of the world. If you read again the verses in Daniel 11, it tells the extent the war will cover. Even now, there is talk about this war spreading to Syria and Iran.

Ezekiel chapter 32 gives more detail. An interesting note on this chapter can be found in verses 23-27. In these verses several middle eastern countries are named that will be slain by the sword. In each verse it says of these nations: they "caused terror in the land of the living." Did the Bible foretell a time of terrorists?

Those nations and their modern equivalents are:
*Egypt — Egypt
*Asshur — Iraq
*Meshech — Turkey
*Edom — Jordan, part of Saudi Arabia
*Tubal — Turkey
*Zidon — Lebanon
*Princes of the North — Iran, and probably could include former Soviet Republics such as Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kurdistan, etc, and other Asian Muslim countries.

This war may appear to be about over, but you will notice, if you listen to the news, that the US government won't say it is over.

In Daniel 2, when the 3 Hebrew men refused to bow to the image set up on Dura's plain, how quickly was the work of erecting that image done? It didn't occur overnight. It took at least months to prepare the gold, shape it into the image, build the base on which it stood, erect it, then issue the decrees ordering the people to assemble and worship the image. Americans, Adventists included, will wake up one morning and find they have been summoned to worship the image of the beast, and wonder how it came to be so quickly. Satan works under cover of darkness. Even now, we must believe that the image is being prepared and the base being built for it. The current war is probably serving a two-fold purpose — permitting the building of the image, and eliminating the largest hindrance to the world domination of the papacy.

It is my belief from my study that when this war is over, after it has spread to the entire Middle East, that we will see the National Sunday Laws be enacted and spread worldwide. "Christians should be preparing for what is soon to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise, and this preparation they should make by diligently studying the word of God and striving to conform their lives to its precepts." (PK 226:1). This is not the time for God's people to be sleeping but to be working, praying, weeping for the sins and abominations in the church. This is not the time for argument and for seeking out strange theories and ideas that have nothing to do with proclaiming the messages of the 3 angels to the whole world.

What I have posted here is not complete, as I didn't intend for it to be. Paul wrote that we are to study for ourselves. We need to come before the Lord with our Bibles and ask earnestly for the outpouring of the Holy Spirt to enlighten our minds and give us wisdom that we might understand these things. I have placed this here because the Lord has impressed me to do so as there are people who are truly searching for answers and if they will go to their Bibles, God will open to them His mysteries.

One thing is for sure - whatever way it all comes together; that we need to be ready, rather than "getting ready."

9T 11 tells us: "The final movements will be rapid ones."

I think that the war in Iraq is definitely a part of what we can all read about in Mat.24. "Wars & rumors of wars."

But do we have license to actually say how God will bring about these "final movements," through specific events, such as this war? We could perhaps spell out the possiblitity or potentials; and that would probably be more amenable to the accounting of the final movements in Mat.24? The order of events there seems like it might clash with the order of events Linda has stated above?

I read with interest what Linda posted. If it leads any of us to study the books of Daniel and Revelation, then I am all for what Linda posted. I think what Linda posted deserves careful examination.

As the USA is obviously factored as a key element in the prophecy of these last days, their activity against Iraq, and now their anger against Syria, bears careful scrutiny. It could very well be one of the landmarks of the lamblike beast beginning to speak like a dragon. I heard on the news where Syria has been weakened by the defeat of the regime in Iraq in which Syria is now sandwiched with Israel on one side and the Americans occupying Iraq on the other side.

David asked if the order of events there, which I believe is Matthew 24, seems like it might clash with the order of events Linda has stated above. In what way?

Good questions Daryl;

and I didn't mean to dismiss Linda's post as unimportant. I have always been taught, however, that great caution should be exercised in stating exactly what will happen with "final events," by taking a war out of it's context, and making it into such a specific, endtime scenario. I think I may have good reason for saying this; and maybe I could start with the question:

What else is there, besides a war, ( or this war), or "rumors of wars," that the Bible tells us must come about just before Jesus comes?

When a Sunday Law comes, will we really have this much warning?
******
I am writing this short edit, as I forgot to include one additional thought that I think would explain what I am saying a bit more.

I am sure that everyone recalls the first Gulf War, and a number of other wars, involving the USA and other countries.

It seems that with every new war that arises, we hear the cries about how the end is near. "This war is the big one." Is it right to seize on each war that comes along, and use it as a catalyst to promote our prophecies? What is being said about the current conflict in Iraq, has also been said about many other past wars.

Do we not need more credibility than this?

And how should we balance the picture in Iraq, with the flip side of the coming Sunday Law Crises? The Second coming of Christ, as depicted in Mat.24 tells us of the stark scene where Jesus says to the disciples: "then shall they deliver you up to tribulation," (Mat.24:9), and in the same text, he said: "you will be hated by all nations, for My name's sake." This can mean nothing other than the fact that Jesus was looking down the corridors of time - right to the very end, and predicting tribulation all the way.

Tribulation...it is not a single event to mark the end. it is ongoing till Jesus comes, and simply increases in intensity till then.

I am questioning what has been said about this war in Iraq too, because Jesus clearly warned us ahead of time, of certain troubles; but he took special care to make sure we recognize that these were not "signs..."

"But the end is not yet..." Mat.24:6.

In Mat.24:15 we are told that when we see certain things happening; then we need to make a special effort to understand the book of Daniel. Why?

Because "the end is not yet," there is more to the picture.

Jesus speaks about several things as being "tribulations," such as

a) tribulations Mat.24:9
b) apostasy Mat.24: 10-12
c) success of the gospel - Mat.24:14

These things appear to be signs we are to look for as fully developed AFTER the troubles like a) war, b) famine c) earthquakes that are mentioned by Christ in Mat.24:4-8 which he calls just "the beginning of the birth pangs." (vs.8). This is where I get the part of tribulations increasing in intensity. As in a human birth, of which I have watched several; it really multiplies in intensity.

While it is good to quote Spirit Of Prophecy; our faith and doctrine can stand alone on Scripture, if need be.

Caution is needed here, because Jesus said: "You do not know on what day your Lord is coming." (mat.24:42), and it would be a shame to predict certain things that we "think" will soon happen, and have another "great disappointment."

I don't think we can afford to give the trumpet such an uncertain sound, by saying what's going to happen with this war in Iraq. Because we really don't know; and the Bible does not tell us.

Well, I don't know if this "edit" was "short" or not, but it was a good study for me. I pray that we can work together for Jesus, and put these times we live in, in proper, Biblical perspective.

[ April 15, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

As I look at the international scene, and read between the lines of the military effort, I find that there is much happening now thata could be a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. I think that these times are very serious.

However, in my presonal orientation, I prefer to clearly state that Bible prophecy was fulfilled after the event. So, I do not say that it is being fulfilled in what we see happening today.

I think Linda's main point was that this war, initiated by the USA in that it is a USA driven war, should be a signal, or at least a reminder, that we need to study the books of Daniel and Revelation:

quote:

---

Study Revelation in connection with Daniel, for history will be repeated. . . . We, with all our religious advantages, ought to know far more today than we do know. {TM 116.3}

---

In other words, we need to look at what is happening and examine the books of Revelation and Daniel in connection with these unfolding events, and how it changes the attitude of the USA, the Middle East, the Moslem world, the Christian world, etc. for as it says above in the quote that Linda quoted, history will repeat itself therefore, is history being repeated here, and, if so, how, or in what way, is it being repeated?

The title of Linda's topic though is whether this war is a fulfillment of prophecy? Is it? If yes, then what Bible prophecy is it a fulfillment of? If no, then, as David stated, is it simply another sign of Matthew 24?

I remember my uncle telling me how certain SDA church leaders and members attempted to prove that WWI and then WWII were fulfillments of prophecy. They wrangled this and that passage from the Bible and SOP convincing themselves and others that Sunday laws were going to be enforced and probation was about to close.

Who knows? Maybe things could have ended back then, but apparently the church was not ready to give the three warning messages, and so yet more opportunites passed us by. Personally I do not see that a war with Iraq or any other Muslim nation has anything to do with fulfilling prophecy. But I am more than willing to be wrong if it means we can go home soon.

If nothing else, I believe it is a stepping stone towards the fulfilling of prophecy, and it could be a giant stepping stone at that.

One of the things I look for as a sign that the end is near is that the prophecy regarding the drying up of the Euphrates is one of earth's final events. U Smith interpreted that event (Revelation 15 or 16 I think) as being the drying up of the sovereignty of the Arab nations that occupy that area. I think he was right. It's true that we had the Golf War a decade ago, and it's true that peace could return to the region, but if you compare the situation now with ten years ago, the chances of the Arabs cooperating with their occupiers are not good.

Does this have anything to do with you're feeling that the end is near Linda. Is there anything more you can add.