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Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? #97234
03/23/08 02:51 PM
03/23/08 02:51 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
I agree polygamy violates the law of God. But you have yet to prove which commandment is violated. You assume it is the 7th. Where is the proof?


From another topic, a poster asked the above. I thought this would make an interesting question for a topic.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #97243
03/23/08 04:42 PM
03/23/08 04:42 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Might this question be founded on a somewhat simplistic view of the law of God?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: vastergotland] #97289
03/24/08 06:40 PM
03/24/08 06:40 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
(Thomas, I don't think so. If you wish, you can present an argument that it is).

No one wants to take a shot at proving that polygamy is a violation of the 7th commandment?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #97297
03/25/08 12:21 PM
03/25/08 12:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, the onus is upon you to prove polygamy violates the 7th commandment. That it violates the law is not the issue.

Thomas, I agree with the idea that the question implies a simplistic view of the law. The truth is, sin violates the law, whether it violates this commandment or that one is a different matter. The law, however, is divided between the first four and the last six commandments.

So, which part of the law does polygamy violate in particular - the part that pertains to our relationship to the Godhead or the part that pertains to our relationship to one another? I suspect this aspect is important.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #97316
03/25/08 04:23 PM
03/25/08 04:23 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
Tom, the onus is upon you to prove polygamy violates the 7th commandment.


Why should the onus be on me? If you asked 100 people (by which I mean 100 reasonably knowledgeable SDA's) which commandment polygamy violated (given that it violates a commandment), I'll bet 100 would say the Seventh.

 Quote:
That it violates the law is not the issue.


I'm glad you concede that it violates the law.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #97370
03/27/08 12:16 PM
03/27/08 12:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, you are evading the burden of proof. Citing 100 unnamed reasonably knowledeable SDAs isn't proof. I could produce a similar list. What saith the Lord? Please post an inspired quote from the Bible or SOP that plainly says polygamy specifically violates the 7th commandment. Thank you.

Also, please address the law that requires men to marry his brother's widow.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #97384
03/27/08 04:23 PM
03/27/08 04:23 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
Tom, you are evading the burden of proof. Citing 100 unnamed reasonably knowledeable SDAs isn't proof.


If you've got some weird theory that nobody else has, the burden of proof is one you. If I said that cheating on your income tax is not a violation of the last 6 commandments, it would be up to me to come up with some argument to support that assertion.

What's your argument that polygamy does not break the last 6 commandments?

 Quote:
I could produce a similar list.


What? I'm saying if you just randomly selected 100 SDA's, from any church, anywhere, that all 100 would say that polygamy is a violation of the 7th commandment, just like they would all say that getting paid for unnecessary secular work on Sabbath is a violation of the 4th. You can't come up with a list like this.

 Quote:
What saith the Lord?


The Lord says that you should have one wife, not two. The Lord says not to commit adultery.

 Quote:
Please post an inspired quote from the Bible or SOP that plainly says polygamy specifically violates the 7th commandment. Thank you.


Since you're the one with the odd idea, I really think it would be appropriate for you to present your argument first. If you refuse to do so (which you may well do, since there is no such argument that can be made) then I'll produce an argument as you request. But my preference, again, since you are the one with the unusual idea, that you would present some reasoning for your idea, so I'll give you one more chance to go first.

To make it easy, you don't even have to present an inspired quote. Just present some argument, any argument, that polygamy is a sin, but not a violation of the Seventh Commandment. Or, baring an argument, just say what you're thinking, and why you would make such a claim.

 Quote:
Also, please address the law that requires men to marry his brother's widow.


I've been addressing this. I've pointed out the EGW said that God did not sanction polygamy even once. Are you disagreeing with her regarding this?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #97389
03/27/08 07:59 PM
03/27/08 07:59 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall

 Quote:
Also, please address the law that requires men to marry his brother's widow.


I've been addressing this. I've pointed out the EGW said that God did not sanction polygamy even once. Are you disagreeing with her regarding this?

Since it cannot be expected that the other brother is unmarried in this quote from Deuteronomy:

5"When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.
6"It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.
7"But if the man does not desire to take his brother's wife, then his brother's wife shall go up to the gate to the elders and say, 'My husband's brother refuses to establish a name for his brother in Israel; he is not willing to perform the duty of a husband's brother to me.'
8"Then the elders of his city shall summon him and speak to him. And if he persists and says, 'I do not desire to take her,'
9then his brother's wife shall come to him in the sight of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot and spit in his face; and she shall declare, 'Thus it is done to the man who does not build up his brother's house.'
10"In Israel his name shall be called, 'The house of him whose sandal is removed.'


If Ellen is right that God did never sanction polygamy, we must conclude that God did not sanction all the laws recorded in the books of Moses.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: vastergotland] #97390
03/27/08 08:34 PM
03/27/08 08:34 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
This is from a Jewish site. The whole article is interesting.

 Quote:
However, if polygamy was not forbidden it was not directly sanctioned. It was a heritage from the past and it was left undisturbed. As the civilization of the people reached a higher form and, especially under the teaching of the prophets, their moral and religious consciousness developed, the polygamous system gradually declined.

http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/08-06.html (emphasis mine)


So maybe we don't have to conlcude that God did not sanction all the laws records in the books of Moses. Whew!


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #97433
03/29/08 12:52 PM
03/29/08 12:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TE: What's your argument that polygamy does not break the last 6 commandments?

MM: The fact God permitted it. The fact He did not specifically prohibit it. The fact He made a law requiring a man to marry his brother's widow.

TE: The Lord says that you should have one wife, not two.

MM: Where in the Bible does God say, Thou shalt not have more than one spouse at a time.

TE: The Lord says not to commit adultery.

MM: What is adultery? Isn't it having sexual relations with someone you're not married to? In the case of polygamy, they're married, right?

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