So when you say that Jesus became sin for us at birth, what you really have in mind is that Jesus became sin for us at birth in one way, and Jesus became sin for us at the cross in another way. IOW, you see a double application to this phrase, that Jesus became sin for us.

To make clear what I'm saying, you believe:

1.Jesus became sin for us at birth because He took our flesh.
2.Jesus became sin for us at the cross, because here God treated Him like sin.

IOW, God did not treat Jesus like sin, except on the cross. So Jesus' becoming sin for us has two different meanings, depending on whether we are dealing with how He was from birth, or how He was on the cross.

No, Tom, it's more like how God treats sinners now and later.

What you're saying here, in this last post, makes no sense to me. (i.e., I have no idea what you're trying to say).

I understand your argument to be the following:
a.Jesus was made to be sin for us.
b.God's glory destroys sin.
c.Therefore Jesus could not have been in God's glory.

I asked what you believed Jesus becoming sin meant, as previously you spoke to how God is angry at sin, and hates sin, and treated Christ on the cross as if He were sin. I asked if Jesus became sin meant this, what you had expressed earlier, or something else. You said that it meant that at His birth He took sinful flesh. So your argument seems to be that Christ could not have stood to be in God's presence because He took sinful flesh, and your argument is based on 2 Cor. 15:21. But you have previously applied 2 Cor. 15:21 to the cross. So I'm asking if you see a double application to is, one of which applies to Jesus' birth, and the other to the cross. Or did you have some other verse in mind in saying that Jesus became sin for us at birth by taking our flesh?

MM, you seem not to responded to post #97202, at least not to the idea developed there that God's glory is His character. Given that God's glory is His character, how can we say that Jesus could not abide in God's glory? He not only abided in it, He manifest it!

Tom, having the character traits of God doesn't cause suffering and death. Being in the presence of God in sinful flesh is what causes suffering and death. Jesus never did suffer or die from being exposed to the "brightness" of God's unvelied glory.

The "brightness" of God glory and the "character" of God are two different aspects of God's glory.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

The glory of God is His character. To say that "brightness" and "character" are two aspects of His character doesn't make sense.

The brightness of God's glory is a reference to Rev. 18:1, which speaks of the earth being lightened with glory. This is a reference to a message.

The "brightness" of God's glory is bright - like sunshine is bright. Yes, metaphorically speaking His brightness is His character. But character doesn't literally shine like sun light. Moses was exposed to God's brightness and it caused his skin to shine brightly. The unsaved souls who receive the mark of the beast will be destroyed by the brightness of God's glory. There is nothing metaphorical about this brightness. It will also cause rubbish to burst into flames and burn up.

Back to the topic. Jesus paid the price of our redemption to law and justice - to the Godhead. He paid it with His blood. Law and justice demands not only pardon but death for sin. Jesus had to die because it was required to satisfy law and justice. That's how it is, how the Godhead set it up from the beginning.

I wrote quite a long reply to this, but can't find it anywhere. Well, I guess that's that.

The "brightness" of God's glory is bright - like sunshine is bright. Yes, metaphorically speaking His brightness is His character. But character doesn't literally shine like sun light. Moses was exposed to God's brightness and it caused his skin to shine brightly. The unsaved souls who receive the mark of the beast will be destroyed by the brightness of God's glory. There is nothing metaphorical about this brightness. It will also cause rubbish to burst into flames and burn up.

Back to the topic. Jesus paid the price of our redemption to law and justice - to the Godhead. He paid it with His blood. Law and justice demands not only pardon but death for sin. Jesus had to die because it was required to satisfy law and justice. That's how it is, how the Godhead set it up from the beginning.