"As we come to understand His true character, we will reflect that character in our own lives." Tom, this makes it sound like we gradually outgrow sinful behavior over the course of a lifetime of sinning less and less until we cease sinning.

From what you've posted here and there I am beginning to believe you think the Holy Spirit waits to reveal to us certain sinful behaviors until we are ready to crucify them, that we are blinded to them until the Holy Spirit makes us aware of them.

If this is truly what you believe, if I haven't misunderstood your belief, then surely there are inspired passages to support it, right? If so, then would you mind posting some of them?

Also, can you name some sinful behaviors a born again believer, who is abiding in Jesus, who is walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, can commit without realizing it misrepresents Jesus, without realizing it offends people around them, without realizing it causes people to conclude Christianity is a joke?

You say you're not singularly focussed on behavior, but your comments seem to indicate otherwise. Why are you reading into my comment some theological idea about behavior?



Why would you think this? I haven't addressed the subject.



I haven't said anything about this.



Again, I haven't said anything about this. All I've done is to emphasize the importance of knowing God's character. I don't see why you would find fault with this.

Being deceived in regards to God's character is what caused man to fall. (DA 21) The final message to be given to the world to prepare for the coming of Christ is a message of God's character. (COL 415)

Tom, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to address my comments (posted above). It's not like we haven't been studying together for years, right?

"The final message to be given to the world to prepare for the coming of Christ is a message of God's character. (COL 415)" What about the 3AMs? Aren't they also part of the final warning message to the world?

I addressed your comments. I asked you why you came to the conclusions you did, based on what I said, and pointed out that I hadn't discussed anything about behavior.

My opinion is that we should be discussing and studying God's character, not trying to parse fine details about behavior.

I think the definition of perfection that you give there is not the Biblical idea of perfection. Noah and Job were called perfect. Abram and even the nation of Israel were called to be perfect. Does your definition of "perfect" allow for these people to be perfect?

Beware of using your own definitions when trying to determine what God is trying to tell you.


Jesus' imperative was, "Be ye perfect." He did not say, "Somebody can be perfect, but not you."

And as I pointed out, long before Christ, there were people whom God called perfect.

Now let's briefly consider a facet of perfection that is often discussed. We all feel the pull to walk in the flesh. The perfect person never walks in the flesh; he walks in the Spirit. Jesus came to free us from the yoke of bondage to which the flesh subjects us, and give us the liberty to freely follow Him wherever He goes. That is a promise we can all claim, if we really want it.

Jesus also did not say that this perfection was something that would be limited to some group 2000 years in the future as some people would have us believe revelation teaches in connection to the 144000.

That's right. There were perfect people over 2000 years before Jesus came in the flesh.

But there is a limitation as to who can be perfect. It is limited to those who are "in Christ Jesus." (Colossians 1:28)

TV: Jesus also did not say that this perfection was something that would be limited to some group 2000 years in the future as some people would have us believe revelation teaches in connection to the 144000.

MM: Amen! Does this mean that you believe being perfect by faith in Jesus (past sins forgiven) and through faith in Jesus (not sinning, growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit) has been available to everyone who abides in Jesus since the fall of A&E?

Tom, throughout this thread we have been discussing whether or not God winks at sinful behavior in born again people who are abiding in Jesus, who are obeying and observing everything Jesus taught and commanded. You cited polygamy as proof God winks at sinful behavior in born again believers. But we both agree God no longer winks at polygamy.

Even though you haven't provided a legitimate example, you still maintain the Holy Spirit waits to reveal certain offensive sinful behaviors in born again believers until He feels they are ready and willing to crucify them. In the meantime, their sinful behavior is causing people to conclude Christianity is a joke.

Now you want me to ignore your theory and just focus on God's character. But how can you truly expect me to follow your advice when it requires me to ignore a part of God's character that makes Him, according to you, wink at sinful behaviors in born again believers that cause people to conclude Christianity is a joke?

I am unsure about the definition of perfection, what it includes and what, if anything, we add to it.