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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#97864
04/07/08 03:47 AM
04/07/08 03:47 AM
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Yes, it was. All divine communication to fallen man has been through Jesus. That's very good Arnold! (wish I had said it) As you can see from my previous post, I didn't come up with it. Some things are perfect for recycling. 
Last edited by asygo; 04/07/08 03:56 PM.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#97870
04/07/08 02:44 PM
04/07/08 02:44 PM
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A: All divine communication to fallen man has been through Jesus.
MM: What about all the times Gabriel communicated with people? The mystic ladder of his dream represented Jesus, the only medium of communication between God and man. {SC 19.2}
After the transgression of Adam, the Lord spoke no longer directly with man; the human race was given into the hands of Christ, and all communication came through Him to the world. {FE 237.1} Apparently, even communication sent through Gabriel was still dependent on Jesus as the medium. Well, in that case, it applies to everyone Jesus communicated to us through - the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, Ellen White, Jones and Waggoner, etc. Jesus is the origin of all the truths we receive. But didn't He say He shared with us what His Father shared with Him? So, like all the others, Jesus is the medium through which our Father communicates with us, right? The source of all truth, therefore, is the Father. In reality, though, I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the source and origin of all truth and love and light; that it doesn't matter which one initiates the communication or through whom they share it.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97878
04/07/08 04:01 PM
04/07/08 04:01 PM
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It is true that God is the source of all truth. It is also true that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all on the same page.
Nevertheless, it is important to understand that "the mystic ladder of his dream represented Jesus, the only medium of communication between God and man." {SC 19.2} It gives us another view of the depth of our problem, and the height of God's solution.
In relation to this topic, it gives us a hint about how we can be seen as blameless and upright before God.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#97895
04/07/08 10:19 PM
04/07/08 10:19 PM
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Arnold, this is from the Glad Tidings: It should be understood that Christ's work as Mediator is not limited either as to time or extent. To be Mediator means more than to be intercessor. Christ was Mediator before sin came into the world, and will be Mediator when no sin is in the universe, and no need for expiation. "In Him all things consist." He is the very impress of the Father's being. He is the life. Only in and through Him does the life of God flow to all creation. He is, then, the means, medium, mediator, the way, by which the light of life pervades the universe. He did not first become Mediator at the fall of man, but was such from eternity.
No one, not simply no man, but no created being, comes to the Father but by Christ. No angel can stand in the Divine presence except in Christ. No new power was developed, no new machinery, so to speak, was required to be set in motion by the entering of sin into the world. The power that had created all things only continued in God's infinite mercy, to work for the restoration of that which was lost. In Christ were all things created, and, therefore, in Him we have redemption through His blood. Col.1:14-17. The power that pervades and upholds the universe is the power that saves us. "Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." I thought you might be interested in seeing this.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#97913
04/08/08 03:08 AM
04/08/08 03:08 AM
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Tom,
Yes, that is interesting. But I don't know if I buy all of it.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#97914
04/08/08 04:54 AM
04/08/08 04:54 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#97932
04/08/08 06:14 PM
04/08/08 06:14 PM
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People who are abiding in Jesus are blameless and upright before God because they are blameless and upright.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97969
04/09/08 02:10 AM
04/09/08 02:10 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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People who are abiding in Jesus are blameless and upright before God because they are blameless and upright. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned. {SC 62.2} Our title is not based on what God does in us.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#97970
04/09/08 02:19 AM
04/09/08 02:19 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
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No one, not simply no man, but no created being, comes to the Father but by Christ. No angel can stand in the Divine presence except in Christ. It seems to be saying that even the unfallen beings need Christ's covering. I'm not exactly comfortable with that. Then, these beings can be in the direct presence of Christ, but not God's. That implies a distinction between the Father and Son that doesn't sit well with me.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#97974
04/09/08 03:49 AM
04/09/08 03:49 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It seems to be saying that even the unfallen beings need Christ's covering. I'm not exactly comfortable with that. He's not making a legal statement, but one of function. Christ was designated to be the one who makes known the Father. No one comes to the Father but by Him. This isn't because of a legal problem. Waggoner makes clear that this is his point by stating the following: No new power was developed, no new machinery, so to speak, was required to be set in motion by the entering of sin into the world. If Waggoner had been speaking to a legal issue, then he would not have said that no new machinery was required to be set in motion. Waggoner's point is that Christ continued in His role of Mediator, or Revelator (to coin a word), after sin entered. It seems clear to me that Waggoner had this in mind. Actually, I wouldn't have minded had he gone into more detail on this point, but he seems to have been focused on bringing out the point that Christ has always been our Mediator. Then, these beings can be in the direct presence of Christ, but not God's. That implies a distinction between the Father and Son that doesn't sit well with me. John writes, "No one has seen God at any time. His only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, has declared Him." (John 1:18;"declare" here means "to make known"). Assuming the "no one" here means "no created being," I think John is expressing the same idea as Waggoner.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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