TE: What Jesus did was good. He fully revealed God, which is to say, He fully revealed what good is.

MM: No, Jesus didn't fully reveal God. For example, Jesus never rained down fire to consume an animal sacrifice. He never asked a father to sacrifice his son. He never withdrew His protection and gave evil angels permission to destroy sinners. He never created a planet or a race of FMAs by simply speaking a word.

TE: "Has God ever destroyed sinners Himself?" As pointed out in GC chapter 1, yes.

MM: What are you referring to? How did God destroy sinners by himself?

TE: When Jesus was asked to destroy his enemies with fire, His response was, "You know not of what spirit you are." Why do you think He said that?

MM: Because Jesus did not come as a conquering king. Instead, He came to show us to live in harmony with the law, and to die on the cross as our Substitute.

Jesus also said:

Matthew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke
12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

We'll just have to disagree about this. I believe Jesus Christ fully revealed God.



I think Dr. Boyd has this exactly right. Note how close this is to Ellen White's words: "All we can and need to know about God is found in Christ."

Dr. Boyd gives the reason: "for God fully dwells in and is revealed in Christ."



It's explained in the chapter, especially around pages 35-37.



Jesus came to show us what God is like, so we could be set right with Him.





The division you speak of arises when one resists the picture of God's character which Jesus gave.

But those are things God has done. Did Jesus come to reveal who God is or what God can do? If Jesus came to reveal what God can do, then you are right, He did not do that. If Jesus came to reveal who God is, then I believe John got it right when he testified: 'the Word who was God became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.'

I listed several things He did in the OT that He didn't do while here in the flesh. Surely you agree Jesus didn't do those things while here, right?


Again, this insight cannot mean Jesus revealed or demonstrated everything there is to know about God, or even everything we read about God in the OT. Jesus said certain things about Himself and His Father would have to wait until revealed by the Holy Spirit because the disciples weren't ready to see it:

John
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.
16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.

What things, which truths, was Jesus unable to reveal because the disciples were unable to bear it? Which things and truths about God did the Holy Spirit reveal later on that Jesus didn't reveal early on? Can you name any of them?


What is explained? How did God destroy sinners Himself? What did He do to them that caused them to die?


If Jesus came to reveal to us what the Father is like, why, then, didn't He explain, while here in the flesh, why and how God destroyed sinners in the OT? All those OT stories cause people to fear God, right? Why didn't Jesus sit His disciples down and explain it to them in plain words?

Instead, Jesus seems to have exacerbated the problem by telling stories of His own that depict God punishing and destroying sinners at the end of time. "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The OT is all about what God has done. We understand what God is like from He did, right? One of the most obvious things in the OT is all the sinners God killed: the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Ten Plagues of Egypt, the Extermination of the Canaanites, etc. Why didn't Jesus explain this aspect of God's character and kingdom while He was here in the flesh? Instead, He told "weeping and gnashing of teeth" stories. Why?

He did explain it, but not everyone understands what He taught.



The "instead" is out of place here.

How many times did Jesus refer to God as "judge"? 0.

How many times did Jesus refer to God as "Father"? Something like 170 times.

Jesus said, "When you've seen Me, You've seen the Father." However, you seem to be saying, "No, you haven't!"

Could it be that God tried communicating who He is by what He did in the OT and simply found out that the effectiveness was rather limmited?

Jesus seemed to refer to Himself as the judge. But a better alternative to asking about judge would be, How many times did Jesus refer to God as "king"?

I don't know, but I'm sure it was nowhere near 170 times.

My point is that Jesus took great pains to present God in a positive way, as a Father, One in whom we can trust, One whom we need not be afraid of. Jesus was trying to bring us to God.

Yet, even though Jesus used the term "Father" so many times, if you just ask someone what title they think of when they think of God, many people will think of "judge" as opposed to "Father."

I think that's a possibility. However, another possibility, which I think is actually the case, is that before Jesus Christ came, God simply was not understood. John says, "No one has seen God at any time. His only begotten Son, who knew Him best, has shown us what He is really like." (John 1:18).

Ellen White, in one of my favorite passages (DA 21), speaks of how the world was dark in misunderstanding of God, because Satan had been so successful in presenting God as One having his (Satan's) own attributes of character. And so it is that most people view God as harsh and sever, as One who will kill you (perhaps even burn you alive first) if you do not do what He says.

When Jesus said, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father." He was saying, "When you see Me, you've seen the O.T. God". Now, since they are quite different (at least most people perceive the O.T. God as being quite different than Jesus Christ), it seems to me a possibility to explain this discrepancy is simply that no one understood God as well as Jesus did.