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Re: Adventism and society [Re: Mountain Man] #97596
04/01/08 02:43 PM
04/01/08 02:43 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
If we follow Jesus example and methods we can't go wrong. \:\)

IMO this has been a historic method of evangelism, that Ellen shed light on for the SDA church.

 Quote:
Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me."--The Ministry of Healing, p. 143.

Devise methods to reach the people where they are.--Let every worker in the Master's vineyard, study, plan, devise methods, to reach the people where they are. We must do something out of the common course of things. We must arrest the attention. We must be deadly in earnest. We are on the very verge of times of trouble and perplexities that are scarcely dreamed of.--Ev 122, 123.

A "beehive" church will have a multi-faceted program for reaching the community.--During the past few years the "beehive" in San Francisco has been indeed a busy one. Many lines of Christian effort have been carried forward by our brethren and sisters there. These included visiting the sick and destitute, finding homes for orphans and work for the unemployed, nursing the sick, and teaching the truth from house to house, distributing literature, and conducting classes on healthful living and the care of the sick. A school for the children has been conducted in the basement of the Laguna Street meetinghouse. For a time a workingmen's home and medical mission was maintained. On Market Street, near the city hall, there were treatment rooms, operated as a branch of the St. Helena Sanitarium. In the same locality was a health-food store. Nearer the center of the city, not far from the Call building, was conducted a vegetarian cafe, which was open six days in the week and entirely closed on the Sabbath. Along the water front, ship mission work was carried on. At various times our ministers conducted meetings in large halls in the city. Thus the warning message was given by many.--RH July 5, 1906.

Seek until you have the joy of finding.--The lesson of persevering faith and labor Christ Himself has taught us. In the parable of the lost sheep He
118


has presented to our imagination no picture of a sorrowful shepherd returning without the sheep. The shepherd's search ceases not until the lost is brought back to the fold. The woman whose coin is lost searches till she finds it. These parables do not speak of failure but of success and joy in the recovery of the lost. Here is the divine guarantee that not one lost soul is overlooked, not one is left unsuccored. With all our efforts in seeking for the lost, Christ will cooperate.--AUCR July 1, 1900


Adventist Community Services

Re: Adventism and society [Re: vastergotland] #97661
04/02/08 06:31 PM
04/02/08 06:31 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Richard,

How is it a marketing ploy to conclude that "Public figures should know the Seventh-day Adventist Church, think well of us, and be open to us. We should influence public opinion regarding the church" and "Adventists also attend and contribute to the discussions. Through this means the church has become widely known and respected at the highest levels of society." What about participating in society is "marketing"?

Also, what about "When I was working for a large software company, marketing would come in to a meeting and everyone would groan as we knew we were going to be facing a hour of 'friendly, happy, great, etc..' jargon on what was coming out and how they would present it." is the problem? Are we too friendly in church? Are we too happy in church? Are we too great in church? Well, perhaps we can be too great but I fail to see how church could be too friendly or too happy. We are after all not Catholic trying to appeace God through grumpy penance.


" What about participating in society is "marketing"?

One could say that we all are marketing something; at the basic level, we market ourselves. It can be as simple as our choice in style of clothing, and hair, the type of vehicle we drive, or if we carry a backpack (slipped that in for you "v" ) or briefcase, even the brand name. It is an impression that we give to those outside of ourselves, it's a statement we make intentionally or not. There are people that may not see beyond this very superficial statement made by another's appearance.

Now add a smile \:\) and it can break through to someone, and it might change their day.

My point is that when we go out into "society" we are marketing ourselves, whether we are cognizant of it or not. As children of the "Most High God" we also represent him. When we are in "society" may we also wear the ". . . the atmosphere of grace which surrounds the soul of the believer".

I have done some "marketing" in a number of venues, so I have wondered about "marketing" the church, the SDA church in particular? I have seen opportunities for "marketing" the SDA church at the local level and wondered if the opportunities should be followed. I have also seen other groups get media attention for a project in which the SDA's were a major participant. It seems to me that at the local level at least the SDA church doesn't appear overly comfortable in marketing itself.

On the other hand we have the head of the universe as our leader. When it is his will he opens the way. All the "marketing", lobbying that the Hebrew might have done in Egypt would have had little effect, but when God was ready to move them out, he did it.

Anyway this is something I have wondered about for a while.


Just to share a few thought from COL. I especially like this.


 Quote:
Christ's Object Lessons (1900), page 298,
Chapter Title: The Lord's Vineyard

The church is very precious in God's sight. He values it, not for its external advantages, but for the sincere piety which distinguishes it from the world. He estimates it according to the growth of the members in the knowledge of Christ, according to their progress in spiritual experience.

Christ hungers to receive from His vineyard the fruit of holiness and unselfishness. He looks for the principles of love and goodness. Not all the beauty of art can bear comparison with the beauty of temper and character to be revealed in those who are Christ's representatives. It is the atmosphere of grace which surrounds the soul of the believer, the Holy Spirit working upon mind and heart, that makes him a savor of life unto life, and enables God to bless his work.

A congregation may be the poorest in the land. It may be without the attraction of any outward show; but if the members possess the principles of the character of Christ, they will have His joy in their souls. Angels will unite with them in their worship. The praise and thanksgiving from grateful hearts will ascend to God as a sweet oblation.

The Lord desires us to make mention of His goodness and tell of His power. He is honored by the expression of praise and thanksgiving. He says, "Whoso offereth praise glorifieth Me." Psalm 50:23. The people of Israel, as they
299


journeyed through the wilderness, praised God in sacred song. The commandments and promises of the Lord were set to music, and all along the journey these were sung by the pilgrim travelers. And in Canaan as they met at their sacred feasts God's wonderful works were to be recounted, and grateful thanksgiving was to be offered to His name. God desired that the whole life of His people should be a life of praise. Thus His way was to be made "known upon earth," His "saving health among all nations." Psalm 67:2.


Another thing that I have learned about "marketing" is that the best form is word of mouth. So may His joy shine forth from our souls.

Re: Adventism and society [Re: crater] #97663
04/02/08 07:28 PM
04/02/08 07:28 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Crater,

Allow me to refine my question a bit. What about denominational participating in society is objectionable marketing? Your point about representing ourselves and God by simply being part of something makes the point that there is no communication or interaction whatsoever that is not marketing something. You could not even build a pillar in the desert and resolve to stay on top of it for 12 years as a hermit and not do marketing. This brings home the point even further that marketing cannot be regarded as an evil or necessary evil, it is an non-negotiable fact of life. Our only options are to deal with it or stick our heads in sand.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Adventism and society [Re: vastergotland] #97724
04/03/08 06:30 PM
04/03/08 06:30 PM
Rick H  Offline
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,234
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Crater,

Allow me to refine my question a bit. What about denominational participating in society is objectionable marketing? Your point about representing ourselves and God by simply being part of something makes the point that there is no communication or interaction whatsoever that is not marketing something. You could not even build a pillar in the desert and resolve to stay on top of it for 12 years as a hermit and not do marketing. This brings home the point even further that marketing cannot be regarded as an evil or necessary evil, it is an non-negotiable fact of life. Our only options are to deal with it or stick our heads in sand.


The Holy Spirit brings people to God not 'marketing', or else we could bring all the rituals, ceremony, trappings and cathedrals of paganism for "marketing" and go that route, but you can see the problem with that, style above substance....

Last edited by Richard; 04/03/08 06:51 PM.
Re: Adventism and society [Re: Rick H] #97733
04/03/08 08:53 PM
04/03/08 08:53 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Richard,

Could you explain to me how we are supposed to fullfill the mission commandment in Matthew without using any method which could possibly be percieved as marketing? Consider what Crater said about your physical self always marketing something by your mere appearance in your answer. Your point about the Holy Spirit doing the bringing in of people put in the context of this thread thus far will lead us to the conclusion that we better stay comfortably at home or in the church and wait for the Spirit to start bringing in people. Maybe you have an example of this actually working aswell?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Adventism and society [Re: vastergotland] #97734
04/03/08 09:11 PM
04/03/08 09:11 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Let me try to explain Craters post for you to help making a relevant answer to my question above.

When you go out of your house to meet with someone to share the gospel with, if you are dressed in a tie and suit, you market yourself as a buisness kind of person.
But if you dress in casual shirt and hawaii-shorts then you might rather be marketing yourself as a surfer dude.
Or if you dress in baggy pants and a hood, you'd be marketing yourself as a skater.
Even if you went out naked, you would still be marketing something about yourself.
Therefore, how can you do anything at all without a sertain level of self-marketing?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Adventism and society [Re: vastergotland] #97736
04/03/08 10:12 PM
04/03/08 10:12 PM
Rick H  Offline
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,234
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Let me try to explain Craters post for you to help making a relevant answer to my question above.

When you go out of your house to meet with someone to share the gospel with, if you are dressed in a tie and suit, you market yourself as a buisness kind of person.
But if you dress in casual shirt and hawaii-shorts then you might rather be marketing yourself as a surfer dude.
Or if you dress in baggy pants and a hood, you'd be marketing yourself as a skater.
Even if you went out naked, you would still be marketing something about yourself.
Therefore, how can you do anything at all without a sertain level of self-marketing?


Well lets see how John the Baptist was dressed and presented himself to the people.....

John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.[a]
2It is written in Isaiah the prophet:
"I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way"[b]—
3"a voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.' "[c] 4And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. 6John wore clothing made of camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7And this was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."Mark 1:1-8



Last edited by Richard; 04/03/08 10:12 PM.
Re: Adventism and society [Re: Rick H] #97755
04/04/08 06:00 AM
04/04/08 06:00 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
And thusly he marketed himself to the people as a prophet.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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