People who are abiding in Jesus are blameless and upright before God because He is blameless and upright.

How could the seraphim serve at the throne of God if they need Jesus as a mediator? I think thinking that John would have adressed more than our human condition is reading into the text. After all, what would he have known about the relationship between out of space beings and God and even more importantly, what does it benefit us to know about such things? That would only tickle our curiosity.

I agree with your analysis. And that's exactly the point that makes me uncomfortable.

I can wrap my mind around the idea of sinful beings needing a Mediator - a Mercy Seat - to stand between the living and the dead. But I don't see why God would make creatures with whom He cannot directly interact.


I'm going with Thomas on this one. I don't think John meant his comment to be so far-reaching in its application.

The greek term "cosmos" for "world" is an interesting one. The Great Controversy theme, detailed by Ellen White, is not as explicit in Scripture, and SDA's are often asked to show its existence from Scripture. There are different ways to approach this question, but one observation is that the statements like John 1:18 may not be referring strictly to humans. To give one more example, in John 8:32 John quotes Jesus as saying "And I, if I be lifted up, will draw all unto Me."

I really don't know what John had in mind as he wrote these things. I'm throwing out the idea as something to think about; also trying to understand more clearly what Waggoner had in mind. I know Waggoner speaks to the non-arbitrariness of things, so I feel sure that entered into his thinking.

It's good food for though. Our church had quite a number of deep thinkings in the 1890's. One hears most often of Jones and Waggoner, of course, but there were others with whom God was working, as the time for Christ's coming was very near. Reading though the GCB's of the time (General Conference Bulletins) of the time, it's amazing to see the breadth of knowledge these men had, as well as the depth of thought.

True. Title and fitness are two different aspects of being blameless and upright in the sight of God. Nevertheless, it is still true that people who are abiding in Jesus are blameless and upright in the sight of God because they are blameless and upright - both forensically (imputed righteousness) and intrinsically (imparted righteousness). Do you agree?

Thomas, do you apply this to sanctification (imparted righteousness), too? Or, does it only apply to justification (imputed righteousness)? Are people who are abiding in Jesus only blameless and upright in the legally declared sense; or, are they blameless and upright in reality?

No, I don't think I agree.

I believe our standing before God is based solely on imputed righteousness. Our imparted righteousness, though faultless to non-divine eyes, is still tainted by corruption.

God sees me as blameless and upright because Christ's character stands in place of mine.

You mean that when God looks at you, He doesn't really see you? Instead He sees Jesus?

Not sure here, is there such a clear cut difference between justification and sanctification? Are either of those defined in relation to sin? Is not justification a word that describes a person who has been made right with God, through Jesus? Is not sanctification a word that describes a person who is starting to grow in the fruit of the Spirit?

When God looks at me, assuming I have been faithfully performing righteousnesses, He sees filthy rags. (If I've been unfaithful, it's worse than filthy rags.)

However, if it has been in my heart to obey, Jesus' righteousness makes up for unavoidable deficiencies. Therefore, as Judge, God sees Christ's character instead of mine, Christ's merits instead of mine, because I am in Christ.

Now, if I choose to stop being in Christ, to stop abiding in Him, then there is no hilasterion for me.