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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#98105
04/11/08 03:57 PM
04/11/08 03:57 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Arnold, I am shocked you believe imparted righteousness is tainted with corruption. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean. It sounds like you are saying faith that works by love, that the fruits of the Spirit, are tainted with corruption. Did I hear you right? If so, I would appreciate it if you could provide Scripture and SOP support. Thank you. No time for much commentary now. But read these quotes, with my emphasis, to see if they clarify things. He came to seek and to save that which was lost. He reached to the very depth of human misery and woe, to take man as He found him, a being tainted with corruption, degraded with vice, depraved by sin, and united with Satan in apostasy, and elevate him to a seat upon His throne. {FE 199.1}
The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God's right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. {1SM 344.2} Arnold, thank you for posting these quotes. I am very familiar with them. However, do they actually say God cannot receive our prayers and praise without the blood of Jesus because they are sinful, because they need to be repented of?
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#98125
04/12/08 04:22 AM
04/12/08 04:22 AM
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Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,636
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However, do they actually say God cannot receive our prayers and praise without the blood of Jesus because they are sinful, because they need to be repented of? What they say is that these offerings from true believers are defiled and impure and must be cleansed by Christ's blood. That tells me that imparted righteousness - religious services, prayers, praise, penitent confession of sin - are unacceptable to God without Christ's imputed righteousness.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#98128
04/12/08 05:54 PM
04/12/08 05:54 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I understand this to mean that, because of sin, we can't expect to merit favor from God by our own efforts.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#98131
04/12/08 09:29 PM
04/12/08 09:29 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Thomas, you wrote - "Not sure here, is there such a clear cut difference between justification and sanctification? Are either of those defined in relation to sin? Is not justification a word that describes a person who has been made right with God, through Jesus? Is not sanctification a word that describes a person who is starting to grow in the fruit of the Spirit?"
1. "Is not justification a word that describes a person who has been made right with God, through Jesus?"
Yes. The quotes I posted agree.
2. "Is not sanctification a word that describes a person who is starting to grow in the fruit of the Spirit?"
Yes. The quotes I posted agree.
But where did you get your definitions from? What is your source? Please post the quotes which support your definitions. Thank you. I have no direct source. Those are definitions picked up by considering these things from many angles and whatever sources I have come across.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#98142
04/13/08 05:44 PM
04/13/08 05:44 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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I understand this to mean that, because of sin, we can't expect to merit favor from God by our own efforts. I don't believe we can merit favor from God by our own anything. However, the Christian walk only happens by human effort. God does not do for us what He expects us to do ourselves. The effort is our part of the deal. Third, the people whose prayers are defiled and impure are "true believers." These are the good guys. So the cleansing is needed by those who are doing it the right way.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#98179
04/14/08 04:02 PM
04/14/08 04:02 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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However, do they actually say God cannot receive our prayers and praise without the blood of Jesus because they are sinful, because they need to be repented of? What they say is that these offerings from true believers are defiled and impure and must be cleansed by Christ's blood. That tells me that imparted righteousness - religious services, prayers, praise, penitent confession of sin - are unacceptable to God without Christ's imputed righteousness. I agree she is specifically talking about true believers. But does she actually say God cannot directly receive their prayers and praise because they are sinful, because they are transgressions of the law?
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#98200
04/14/08 08:43 PM
04/14/08 08:43 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I don't believe we can merit favor from God by our own anything.
However, the Christian walk only happens by human effort. God does not do for us what He expects us to do ourselves. The effort is our part of the deal.
Third, the people whose prayers are defiled and impure are "true believers." These are the good guys. So the cleansing is needed by those who are doing it the right way. Until when? (i.e., until when is this cleansing needed?)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#98211
04/15/08 03:07 AM
04/15/08 03:07 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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But does she actually say God cannot directly receive their prayers and praise because they are sinful, because they are transgressions of the law? If they are defiled and impure, in need of cleansing, what else could have defiled them but sin? Why would God require Christ's cleansing, if they were not tainted by sin?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: Tom]
#98212
04/15/08 03:09 AM
04/15/08 03:09 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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I don't believe we can merit favor from God by our own anything.
However, the Christian walk only happens by human effort. God does not do for us what He expects us to do ourselves. The effort is our part of the deal.
Third, the people whose prayers are defiled and impure are "true believers." These are the good guys. So the cleansing is needed by those who are doing it the right way. Until when? (i.e., until when is this cleansing needed?) Excellent question! Here's my excellent answer: I haven't figured that out yet.  But we are promised that we can reach the sinlessness of pre-fall Adam. I would like to dig into this more.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: What does "Blameless" and "Upright" before God mean...?
[Re: asygo]
#98218
04/15/08 12:39 PM
04/15/08 12:39 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Ok. I take it your point, in regards to MM, is that believers who are now worshiping God need to have their prayers purified by Christ, which indicates that they still have sinfulness? If so, I think that argument works.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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