I don't think this can be answered in a way like, "We know X instinctively about God." I think we have been born with the capacity to know and appreciate spiritual things. I think it was Augustine who said that we have a void that can only be filled by God, which thought I think is fine.



As I've been saying, according to Paul, what can be known of God is enough that one should be thankful to Him. When Paul spoke of the gentiles being "a law unto themselves," he did not include only the last 6 commandments. He didn't say any of the 10 commandments was known solely though instinct. I would say that we can only know we are doing wrong by the work of the Holy Spirit, for any of the 10.

Okay. But I disagree with the idea we can know enough about Jesus and the plan of salvation by simply observing nature. Nature does not teach people about the first four commandments. It doesn't say one single thing about who Jesus is, about idolatry, about taking Jesus' name in vain, and it certainly doesn't say anything about observing the seventh day of the week and communing with Jesus during the sacred Sabbath hours.

It is obvious, though, that people are born with an instinctive knowledge of what is morally right and wrong as defined by the last six commandments. No one can violate them without feeling strange and uncomfortable. They may not be able to pinpoint why a certain thought or behavior makes them feel bad, but they know it instinctively, they feel it in their heart and soul.

I don't know what you mean by this. Do you mean without the Holy Spirit? With the Holy Spirit, it's certainly enough. Romans 1 makes that clear.



According to Romans 1, it does. At least, it teaches people about God, and His nature, enough that they know that God exists and that they should be thankful to Him. Ps. 19 talks about a knowledge of God is known throughout as well.



It doesn't say anything about who Jesus is? Boy, you're missing something here! Jesus is the Creator, and nature certainly testifies to that.



It is obvious, from Scripture, that people are born with *some* knowledge of what is right and wrong, as evidenced by both tables of the 10 commandments. Romans does not single out the second table. As far as I'm aware, this idea is unique to you.



Assuming they know what they are doing is wrong. But, of course, this applies to the first 4 equally.



This applies equally to any sin, whether it violates commandments from the first table, or the second.

Please cite a reference where an indigenous tribe studied nature and discovered the truth about God (not god}, the truth about idolatry, the truth about taking God's name in vain, and the truth about keeping the seventh-day holy from sunset to sunset.


Again, please cite a reference. Thank you. That is, a reference where a person who has never of heard of the Bible or Jesus and knows instinctively when he is breaking one of the first four commandments. For example, cite a reference that portrays him feeling bad or guilty because he broke the fourth commandment.

There's no need to.

You stated, "Nature doesn't say one single thing about who Jesus is, about idolatry, about taking Jesus' name in vain, and it certainly doesn't say anything about observing the seventh day of the week and communing with Jesus during the sacred Sabbath hours." To refute this statement, I only need to produce one counter-example of any of the things you asserted. I don't need to present multiple counter-examples.

For example, if you said, "None of the following states has the letter 'e' in it: Alaska, New Mexico, Hawaii, or Kansas." and I say, "New Mexico has an 'e' in it." this disproves your statement. I don't need to prove that Alaska, Hawaii, or Kansas do not have 'e's.

That nature testifies of a Creator is clear from Romans 1. The Christ is the Creator is clear from John 1. Since nature testifies of the Creator, and Christ is the Creator, your assertion is proven false.

Except that if you have a look at the different examples of creators that people have believed in not knowing Christ, you'd have hard work finding one that bears resemblance beyond the truism that creators create.

Tom, this thread has evolved. The questions have changed. Please disregard what I posted previously and address the following new and improved questions. Thank you.

Thomas, I agree. Most people who derive their beliefs about god from nature end up believing in gods that do not resemble the God of nature, Jesus Christ.

Tom, this thread has evolved. The questions have changed. Please disregard what I posted previously and address the following new and improved questions. Thank you.

Regarding post 97934, I quoted Romans 1.



This says that the heathen who choose not to honor God or thank Him are without excuse. They can only be held at fault if there is a reasonable expectation that, based on what they know of God as revealed through nature and the Holy Spirit, that they should honor Him and give Him thanks.

This is very clear from the text.

MM, surely you can see that not honoring God or giving Him thanks is a violation of the first table of the 10 commandments, can't you?