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Re: The truth about the fall
#9841
08/01/03 12:54 PM
08/01/03 12:54 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
I am satisfied that God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the forbidden fruit. It is unlike God not to warn Eve personally.
This is frightening. You are prepared to discard what the Bible plainly says because you do not think it is like God not to warn Eve personally. Are you serious? As a pastor myself, I am concerned at this apparent disregard for what the Bible teaches. You are suggesting that Moses was wrong in his chronicling because you, living in the 21st Century, know what God should have done. This sounds like the scientists who say, we know there is no God so what we have observed must be due to some other phenomenon. Lord have mercy on our souls.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9842
08/02/03 03:00 AM
08/02/03 03:00 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Wow! That's intense. If I am to be insulted because I am willing to accept Ellen White's inspired insights on Genesis chapter 2 rather than your personal ideas, then indeed - God help us! If I must choose between your ideas and Ellen White's inspired insights then God forbid that I should reject her and follow you. The idea that God failed or refused to warn Eve about the eternal consequences of eating the forbidden fruit (namely, the death of Christ on the Cross) sounds very preposterous to me.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9843
08/01/03 05:09 PM
08/01/03 05:09 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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It is your assumption that what Moses recorded was not sufficient. It would be better to interpret the gospel in light of what Moses recorded than to change Moses story to make your assumption fit. As to EGW's commentary I have no problem admitting that she unwisely adopted a point of view that was popular. She won't be the first prophet to make a mistake. Paul was influenced by the patriarchal ideas of his time. John mistook an angel for God and tried to worship the angel.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9844
08/01/03 05:26 PM
08/01/03 05:26 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I am surprised you are so willing to discount the inspired authors in order to uphold your cherished idea. Where do you draw the line? How do you determine whether or not an inspired author is right or wrong?
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9845
08/01/03 05:48 PM
08/01/03 05:48 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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I think that the reason Eve had known about the command God gave Adam was the fact that Adam and Eve were one. quote:
Genesis 2:23,24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
This is God's design that man and woman should always be together, and that they be one.
As for the punishments well it is clear that both disobeyed God which is why both were punished, but Eve gave Adam the fruit.
quote:
Genesis 3:16-18
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9846
08/01/03 09:23 PM
08/01/03 09:23 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
I am surprised you are so willing to discount the inspired authors in order to uphold your cherished idea. Where do you draw the line? How do you determine whether or not an inspired author is right or wrong?
Cherished ideas? Until three weeks ago I believed as you believed, until I found myself in the midst of a research project. As I read what the inspired author, that would be Moses, had written realization dawned upon me. Why would you attempt to suggest that what I have presented is not based on the inspired writers?
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9847
08/01/03 09:39 PM
08/01/03 09:39 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
How do you determine whether or not an inspired author is right or wrong?
In this case it was a matter of comparing what Moses' account appeared to indicate with what Paul said in comment. It is interesting that Paul is the only other biblical writer who lends credence to the story of the incident between Eve and Lucifer. Only lack of first hand knowledge on Eve's part accounts for Paul's view that she was deceived. If she had known directly from God it would be plain disobedience. Where do you think I have gone wrong?
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9848
08/02/03 03:55 AM
08/02/03 03:55 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Will, thank you for sharing. I appreciate your thoughtful insights. It seems pretty clear that God warned Adam and Eve at the same time. Gensis 2 cannot be read chronologically because it is obvious it wasn't written in that format.
Darius, for reasons I've already shared I believe you are misapplying Moses' inspired record of the Genesis 2 account. I also believe Sister White is as inspired as was Moses and Paul and where they are vague she is crystal clear. Otherwise she is a false prophet and messenger. But it comes down to whether or not we should trust your way of applying Genesis 2 or Sister White's. Based on her prophetic gift and calling I feel very safe with her inspired insights.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9849
08/02/03 04:31 AM
08/02/03 04:31 AM
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Darius,
I'm sorry that you feel constrained to post such misleading statements.
That's all it is.
As if God suddenly singly showed you this amazing revelation, after all these years of error on the part of the majority -- I just don't think so. Sorry.
===
I have an MBA myself, but have quickly learned that worldly degrees won't matter much in the world to come -- so let's not use our Ph.D.s or J.D.s as proof that we know anything more than our fellows, eh? Some of the Ph.D's who taught me, I found out they didn't know how to change a flat tire. So intelligence is relative, is it not.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9850
08/02/03 11:35 AM
08/02/03 11:35 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by John:
As if God suddenly singly showed you this amazing revelation, after all these years of error on the part of the majority -- I just don't think so. Sorry.
I'm sure you realized the similarity between your thoughts and the attitude of the 1st Century Jews towards Jesus Christs, and the RCC towards Luther. The majority cannot be wrong. We know where that ended. It would be far better if you took the time to engage in dialogue so we can determine the truth as God reveals it.
(Aug. 2) I would further add that all of the prophets were confronted with the same question you have asked. "Why are you the only one who knows how to serve God correctly? How can all of us be wrong.?"
quote:
I have an MBA myself,
Why are you making your education an issue?
[ August 02, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Darius ]
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