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Re: The truth about the fall
#9881
08/13/03 02:49 PM
08/13/03 02:49 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Darius, let us allow Sister White to speak for herself regarding your accusations of her ministry and message:
"This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . . bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil." {FLB 296.5}
"The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." Prov. 29:18. Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony. He will bring in spurious visions, to mislead and mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions, as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them. {FLB 296.6}
"When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction. {FLB 296.7}
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9882
08/13/03 02:53 PM
08/13/03 02:53 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"Many times in my experience I have been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class, who acknowledged that the testimonies were from God, but took the position that this matter and that matter were Sister White's opinion and judgment. This suits those who do not love reproof and correction, and who, if their ideas are crossed, have occasion to explain the difference between the human and the divine. {3SM 68.1}
"If the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed in being reproved by testimonies, they have a burden at once to make plain their position to discriminate between the testimonies, defining what is Sister White's human judgment, and what is the word of the Lord. Everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine, and the testimonies to correct their errors are human--Sister White's opinions. They make of none effect the counsel of God by their tradition.-- Manuscript 16, 1889. {3SM 68.2}
"You have talked over matters as you viewed them, that the communications from Sister White are not all from the Lord, but a portion is her own mind, her own judgment, which is no better than anybody else's judgment and ideas. This is one of Satan's hooks to hang your doubts upon to deceive your soul and the souls of others who will dare to draw the line in this matter and say, this portion which pleases me is from God, but that portion which points out and condemns my course of conduct is from Sister White alone, and bears not the holy signet. You have in this way virtually rejected the whole of the messages, which God in His tender, pitying love has sent to you to save you from moral ruin. . . . {3SM 68.3}
"There is One back of me which is the Lord, who has prompted the message which you now reject and disregard and dishonor. By tempting God you have unnerved yourselves, and confusion and blindness of mind has been the result.--Letter 16, 1888. {3SM 69.1}
"And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the word of God, reject them. Christ and Belial cannot be united. For Christ's sake do not confuse the minds of the people with human sophistry and skepticism, and make of none effect the work that the Lord would do. Do not, by your lack of spiritual discernment, make of this agency of God a rock of offense whereby many shall be caused to stumble and fall, "and be snared, and be taken." {5T 691.2}
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9883
08/13/03 02:59 PM
08/13/03 02:59 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Darius, you can deny that this counsel pin points what you are teaching about Sister White's ministry - but clearly the things you are advocating in this thread are the very things God condemns. Please adjust your course immediately. Thank you.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9884
08/14/03 03:49 AM
08/14/03 03:49 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Lowe: Darius, you can deny that this counsel pin points what you are teaching about Sister White's ministry - but clearly the things you are advocating in this thread are the very things God condemns. Please adjust your course immediately. Thank you.
You remind me of the exchange between the US warship captain and the lighthouse keeper. Don't you recognize the folly of suggesting that even though there are several documented cases where men who contributed to the Holy Bible made errors without affecting the validity of their call and mission, that to identify even one case where EGW was mistaken is somehow an attack against her entire ministry? If you would take the time for careful review you will find that the person who is truly attacking her ministry is you, by applying a standard that NO human can ever meet; and all in the name of her defense. This is the ultimate deception. [ August 13, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Darius ]
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9885
08/13/03 04:00 PM
08/13/03 04:00 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Pretty good. That's the very song I had in mind when I wrote "adjust your course." But please show from her writings where she admits that your assumptions regarding her ministry are correct. That is, her theological details are not always accurate and that it doesn't really matter.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9886
08/13/03 05:09 PM
08/13/03 05:09 PM
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quote:
Posted by Mike Lowe: But please show from her writings where she admits that your assumptions regarding her ministry are correct. That is, her theological details are not always accurate and that it doesn't really matter.
Mike has made a fair request which I hope Darius will be able to produce.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9887
08/13/03 05:12 PM
08/13/03 05:12 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Lowe: Pretty good. That's the very song I had in mind when I wrote "adjust your course." But please show from her writings where she admits that your assumptions regarding her ministry are correct. That is, her theological details are not always accurate and that it doesn't really matter.
No prophet of God would write what he knowingly assesses to be wrong. John believed he was doing the right thing when he tried to worship the angel only to be told "See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, of of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Paul was unduly influenced by the patriarchal culture in which he lived without detriment to his status as the pre-eminent theologian of the church. I am surprised you would make such a request. However, EGW does caution against using her in the way you seem to be doing. She never claimed infallibility.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9888
08/13/03 05:28 PM
08/13/03 05:28 PM
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It looks to me that Darius made a valid response as not even the prophets are infallible, however, any message they received directly from God in vision, etc. is an infallible message, is it not?
Isn't this one of the tests of a true prophet of God?
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9889
08/13/03 05:33 PM
08/13/03 05:33 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote: Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett: It looks to me that Darius made a valid response as not even the prophets are infallible, however, any message they received directly from God in vision, etc. is an infallible message, is it not?
Isn't this one of the tests of a true prophet of God?
Correct, but reception is not the same as delivery. The prophet must first attempt to understand what has been received then process it as he tries to deliver it. God does not interrupt the human component. If He did we would need to ask why He allowed the human component to succumb to Lucifer's deceit in the first place. God expects us to be always in submission to His leading, not to surrender our reason to the interpretations of men, no matter how holy they may be.
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Re: The truth about the fall
#9890
08/13/03 05:38 PM
08/13/03 05:38 PM
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It sounds like we may need to devote a separate topic on the study of the validity of messages received from any and/or all of the prophets of God which could make for an interesting Bible Study which could then be applied to the messages received and transmitted to us by EGW.
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