I addressed this. Your questions asks if a person can experience rebirth before doing something which stands in the way of experiencing it. How could that be answered yes?



Not in common parlance. If you give some special meaning to the terms you're using, then it's possible there's a difference.



I haven't been ignoring it. I've been answering these questions on thread after thread, over and over again.

I've pointed out that there are sins that we do not recognize as sins. We are not capable of doing so at a given time. So the Holy Spirit leads us in a process of discovery. Before we can learn D, we must learn A, B and C. So the Holy Spirit teaches us A. When we learn A, He leads us to B, and so forth.

The Spirit of Prophecy tells us (as I recall) that God reveals truth to us as fast as we are willing and able to receive it. It's not that God withholds any good thing from us, but we, because of our obtuseness or whatever do not pick up on what we're being told.

TE: That doesn't mean that we can't occasionally sin.

MM: While we are abiding in Jesus? Which one of the sins listed below will we commit unwittingly if we are abiding in Jesus?

1. By having a spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ.

2. By evilspeaking.

3. By foolish talking.

4. By words that are untruthful or unkind.

5. By shunning life's burdens.

6. By the pursuit of sinful pleasure.

7. By conforming to the world.

8. By uncourteous behavior.

9. By the love of their own opinions.

10. By justifying self.

11. By cherishing doubt.

12. By borrowing trouble.

13. By dwelling in darkness.

Tom, before you answer, please bear in mind this list comes from the following quote, in which she says, "In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them." In other words, they cannot commit these sins while Christ is in them.

Any of them probably. Moses is an example.

Are you saying Moses sinned while he was abiding in Jesus? If so, why, then, did Sister White say, "In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them."

No, MM, I didn't say anything one way or the other about Moses abiding in Christ.

Please note in the quote you cited, EGW said that one *may* deny Christ in any number of ways. She did not say that one doing any of these things was of necessity denying Christ. Also, she prefaced her statement here by speaking of one's not being of the right spirit. She's saying that one not of the right spirit can deny Christ in many different ways.

TE: No, MM, I didn't say anything one way or the other about Moses abiding in Christ.

MM: Which one of the things she listed above was Moses guilty of doing? Was he abiding in Jesus when he did it?

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TE: She did not say that one doing any of these things was of necessity denying Christ.

MM: Which one of them can a professing believer be guilty of without denying Jesus? "A spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ would deny Him, whatever the profession." Then she lists the different ways professing believers can deny Him.

Moses lost his patience. I don't know what your theory is regarding the timing of abiding in Jesus and sinning. I'm guessing your theory is:

a.Moses was abiding in Jesus.
b.While doing so, he didn't sin.
c.He quit abiding in Jesus.
d.Then he sinned.
e.Then he repented.
f.Then he started abiding in Jesus again.

Is that right?



She doesn't say. She says any one of them may deny Christ. She makes no comment as to which might not deny Christ.



Right! The wrong spirit, of necessity, denies Christ. This wrong spirit *may* be revealed by (a list follows).

This doesn't mean the things in the list must of necessity deny Christ.

Tom, the word "may" in the quote means "can" not "might". In other words, people who do not have the spirit of Christ can deny Him in the ways she named, which, by the way, includes all ways. It is equivalent to Paul's "and such like" in Galatians 5:21.

Also, you're sequence formula is pretty close to what I believe. Here's how I express it, though.

1. Moses did not and could not commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus.

2. When he neglected to abide in Jesus he sinned. An example of this is when he smote the rock instead of speaking to it to bring forth water.

3. When he received the gift of repentance, it empowered him to confess and forsake his sin, which also gave God the legal right to pardon him and to restore the relationship his sin severed.

How does your formula differ from this one?

Are you saying that neglecting to abide in Jesus is itself a sin, or that after he neglected to abide in Jesus he sinned?

There is no neutrality, no moment when we are neither sinning nor being righteous. Therefore, the moment we neglect to abide in Jesus we are sinning. Although neglecting to abide in Jesus and sinning are two separate things, they happen simultaneously.

By the way, the word "may" in the quote we've been examining means "can" not "might". In other words, people who do not have the spirit of Christ will deny Him in one or more of the ways she named, which, by the way, includes all ways. It is equivalent to Paul's "and such like" in Galatians 5:21.

Again, there is no neutrality. We are either all of His and free of sin or none of His and full of sin. As it is written, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:6)