No, I don't think this is possible. As to why not, the message which prepares one for being ready for Christ's coming, of necessity, involves Jesus Christ in a specific way.

The Holy Spirit is the voice of Jesus, so every soul has a chance to hear Him and be saved....who do you think told them what to write in the scriptures and what to prophecise.....?

Tom, what is the difference between the message now and the message just before probation closes? Isn't it the same message? Since 1844 there have been people who were ready for translation, right? The fact Jesus did not return before they died makes no difference so far as the message is concerned.

The only difference between them and the 144,000 is the fact the latter group will have their sins blotted out while they are alive, and the fact they go through the great time of trouble. But the others were just as qualified to do it, too. In fact, the thief on the cross was just as qualified. Do you agree?

Since that message hasn't come yet, I can't give a definitive answer, but the 1888 message was its beginning.



No. If it were the same message, Jesus would have come long ago. Daniells commented:





No. Translation is a corporate event.



I'm not sure what you're wanting to say here.



No, this isn't the only difference. The status of the world is much difference, for one thing. For another, the content of the message being preached is far, far different. The message to be preached is a message which will "fill the earth with its glory." The beginning of this message began to shine in 1888, but it was quashed, and did not develop.



No. To be qualified includes hearing the message which qualifies, which the thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to do.

I heard it explained that the concept of people being without sin in this side of Jesus return is akin to the catholic concept of purgatory come to us through the Wesley brothers and originating from the Platonic view that the body is evil while the soul is pure. It was quite an interesting idea, though not one that all adventist take kindly towards.

Thomas, I'm not following you. Please explain what you mean. Thank you.

The greek philosophers of old thought that the human soul was pure but unfortunately locked in a corrupt and evil body. Thus death was a release of the soul from its prison. This was in the medieval times incorporated into the churches teaching with the thought that the pure soul had been more or less fouled by the corruption of the body. Therefore purgatory was invented, where the soul stay to be cleansed until it is pure enough to encounter God's throne. How much cleansing the soul needs of course depends on how much the body has had occation to defile it. Comes reformation and later the Wesley brothers. They ponder like this, if a man asks for forgiveness he is clean and pure until he sins again. But if he is killed right after asking for Gods forgiveness, then he will die a pure man. But what if the man is not killed but through Gods power manages to continue living without sin for a while before dying a pure man? More water flows through the creek and adventism comes around. The concept is evolving further with the addition that not only is the soul of the forgiven man pure and holy, the holiness like some mystical essence cant be contained in the soul but flows out and impregnates the body of the believer aswell. This teaching has been known to us as the holy flesh movement. But wait, holy flesh teaching was forcefully resisted in adventism by at least one of its founders. Im sure you can guess who. Not only holy flesh teaching but its forebears aswell. But not all in high position in adventism wished to root out the holy flesh teaching by its roots, so when the fruits and branches of the tree were disposed and the purging of the stem started (Wesleys teaching as given above), this lonesome messenger of truth had to be obivated. Now, they must thread carefully about this since this person after all was said and done wasn't just anybody. But they reaconed that Australia might be a safe place of quaranteen. Therefore, because of the unwillingness to go to the root of the matter, the soil where holy flesh teaching could grow is still fertile and plenty of weeds grow in it, to the detriment of our church.

This is about how I was told. And I recon forum members will not enjoy reading it.

Tom, the message has been the same since Enoch walked into heaven without dying. The fact not everybody walks into heaven has nothing to do with the message. The problem is with people, not with the message. There is nothing mysterious about it.

The idea that God is withholding certain elements of the message that are necessary for the corporate church to be translated alive is unfounded. The thief on the cross was just as ready to be translated alive as anyone of the 144,000. Besides, the 144,000 are not all spiritual giants. Some of them barely make it. Here's how she describes it:

GC 618, 619, 622
As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost. Their confidence in God, their faith and firmness, will be severely tested. As they review the past, their hopes sink; for in their whole lives they can see little good. They are fully conscious of their weakness and unworthiness. {GC 618.3}

If they could have the assurance of pardon they would not shrink from torture or death; but should they prove unworthy, and lose their lives because of their own defects of character, then God's holy name would be reproached. {GC 619.1}

They feel that had they always employed all their ability in the service of Christ, going forward from strength to strength, Satan's forces would have less power to prevail against them. {GC 619.2}

God's love for His children during the period of their severest trial is as strong and tender as in the days of their sunniest prosperity; but it is needful for them to be placed in the furnace of fire; their earthliness must be consumed, that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected. {GC 621.1}

Those who exercise but little faith now, are in the greatest danger of falling under the power of satanic delusions and the decree to compel the conscience. And even if they endure the test they will be plunged into deeper distress and anguish in the time of trouble, because they have never made it a habit to trust in God. The lessons of faith which they have neglected they will be forced to learn under a terrible pressure of discouragement. {GC 622.1}

TV: Therefore, because of the unwillingness to go to the root of the matter, the soil where holy flesh teaching could grow is still fertile and plenty of weeds grow in it, to the detriment of our church.

MM: Are you talking about the book Steps to Christ? In it she describes the sanctified life. Is this the remnants of holy flesh you're referring to?

No, nothing I heard gives me reason to believe that Ellen would support it in any of the books she wrote herself, although I am sure there are compilations that do. But Steps to Christ is no compilation, right?