I still don't know the answer to my question. Is neglecting to abide in Jesus itself a sin?



Can is fine. It is something that can happen (as opposed to something that must happen).



This is an incorrect inference. Her statement is existential, not universal. That is, she used an existential qualifier, meaning that some of A are B, as opposed to a universal qualifier, meaning that all A are B. "May," "might," "can," are examples of an existential quantifier. "Will," "must," "shall" are examples of universal quantifiers.

Her point was that those with a wrong spirit deny Christ, which they may do in a number of ways (which is, indeed, what she said). Her point was not that anyone who does one of the following things is, of necessity, denying Christ. It's a good thing she didn't make a statement like this, because it would contradict statements she made elsewhere (e.g. the statement saying that where there is no light, there is no sin).

I should add that even if she had said that one having the wrong spirit *will* deny Christ (instead of may), it *still* wouldn't mean what you are saying. That one can deny Christ in any of a number of ways does not imply that anytime one does one of these things, one is denying Christ. That's incorrect reasoning.

For example, one can arrive downtown in one of the following ways: take a ferry, take a train, take a bus, drive a car. It does not follow from this that anytime one takes a bus, one is going downtown.

There is no neutrality, no moment when we are neither sinning nor being righteous. Therefore, the moment we neglect to abide in Jesus we are sinning. Although neglecting to abide in Jesus and sinning are two separate things, they happen simultaneously. Thus, neglecting to abide in Jesus is a sin of omission. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Again, there is no neutrality. We are either all of His and free of sin or none of His and full of sin. As it is written, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:6) Our sinless or sinful standing before God depends upon whether or not we are abiding in Jesus.


Here's the quote again:

DA 357
He who would confess Christ must have Christ abiding in him. He cannot communicate that which he has not received. The disciples might speak fluently on doctrines, they might repeat the words of Christ Himself; but unless they possessed Christlike meekness and love, they were not confessing Him. A spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ would deny Him, whatever the profession. Men may deny Christ by evilspeaking, by foolish talking, by words that are untruthful or unkind. They may deny Him by shunning life's burdens, by the pursuit of sinful pleasure. They may deny Him by conforming to the world, by uncourteous behavior, by the love of their own opinions, by justifying self, by cherishing doubt, borrowing trouble, and dwelling in darkness. In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them. And "whosoever shall deny Me before men," He says, "him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." {DA 357.2}

Here she says, "He who would confess Christ must have Christ abiding in him. He cannot communicate that which he has not received." She uses what you call universal quantifiers - "must" and "cannot". In this context she lists several different ways people can and have denied Christ.

At the head of her list of denials is a catch-all principle, which is not having the spirit of Christ. "A spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ would deny Him, whatever the profession." Again, she uses what you call a universal quantifier. She doesn't say it "might" deny Jesus. To have a spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ is to deny Him before men.

In other words, people who profess to be Christians, but who do not have the spirit of Christ, are misrepresenting Him before men. To misrepresent the character of Jesus in any way is to deny Him before men. They are guilty of breaking the third commandment of the law of God. Not might be guilty, but are guilty. There is no neutrality.

"In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them." Please notice she doesn't say "might not be in them". When Jesus is not abiding in people who are professing to be Christians, they are misrepresenting Him before men, they are denying Him before men. She concludes by saying, "And 'whosoever shall deny Me before men,' He says, 'him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven.'"

Again, she uses what you call universal quantifiers. In other words, whoever is professing to be a Christian, but who is guilty of one or more of the specific things she names, is denying Jesus before men. Not might be guilty of denying Him before men, but are guilty of denying Him before men. Jesus is not abiding in them, therefore, they cannot not deny Him. No matter what they do it will deny Him.

MM, the universal qualifiers tell us that it is certain that one who has not the spirit of Christ is denying Him. The existential quantifier tells us how this may happen. But your inference that one who does the things on the list is necessarily denying Christ is unsound. Please reconsider the example I gave you. I'll restate it here for your convenience.

One can arrive downtown in one of the following ways: take a ferry, take a train, take a bus, drive a car. It does not follow from this that anytime one takes a bus, one is going downtown.

Similarly one may deny Christ in a number of ways (the list EGW gives). It does not follow that anytime one does one of these things, one is denying Christ.

Regarding neglecting to abide in Christ being a sin, is this a sin that one knowingly does?

Neglecting to abide in Jesus is a sin of omission, which is a known sin. No truly born again believer can neglect to abide in Jesus and not know it. We cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus. Sinning, therefore, is the surest sign we are not abiding in Jesus. We are not left to own devices to sort it out. "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." Through the eyes of spiritual discernment we know whether we are abiding in Jesus or not. It is not left to guess work.

Again, regarding the SOP quote we've been examining, she says, "A spirit contrary to the spirit of Christ would deny Him, whatever the profession." She clearly does not say it "might" deny Him. Concerning her list of denials, she says, "In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them."

You seem to be suggesting she got it wrong, that a person professing to be a Christian, whose spirit is contrary to the spirit of Christ, who is guilty of one or more of the sins she listed, in whom Christ is not dwelling - that this person is not necessarily denying Jesus. It is amazing to me you can draw this conclusion based on what she wrote about it.

1.Neglecting to abide in Jesus is a known sin.
2.We cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus.

Do you see a problem here?



No, MM, I'm not suggesting she got it wrong. I'm pointing out a logical error of inference you are making. She says that a person with a wrong spirit definitely denies Christ, that part's correct. She also say this is done by doing one of the items on the list. That's correct too. However, it's an incorrect inference to conclude that any item on the list of necessity denies Christ. Please consider the analogy:

One can arrive downtown in one of the following ways: take a ferry, take a train, take a bus, drive a car. It does not follow from this that anytime one takes a bus, one is going downtown.

Similarly one may deny Christ in a number of ways (the list EGW gives). It does not follow that anytime one does one of these things, one is denying Christ.

TE: Similarly one may deny Christ in a number of ways (the list EGW gives). It does not follow that anytime one does one of these things, one is denying Christ.

MM: Do you agree with her that it means Jesus is not in them? Again, referring to her list of denials, she says, "In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them." If you agree with her, how, then, can you say doing something without Jesus being in us does not necessarily deny Him? Isn't it denying Him that causes Him to not be in people who profess to be Christians?

"All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy." {SC 59.4} If we profess to be a Christian, and Jesus is not in us, then whatever we do apart from Him is tainted with sin, which is denial of Him, right?

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1. Neglecting to abide in Jesus is a known sin.
2. We cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus.

Neglecting to abide in Jesus is a sin of omission. Born again believers commit sins of commission when they neglect to abide in Jesus. Sins of omission and commission are both known sins. They do not count as sins of ignorance.

What is your point?

Those who do not have the Spirit of Christ may deny Christ in a number of ways. She gives a list. However, because someone does something on the list does not mean that they are denying Christ.

One may go to the city in a number of ways; take a ferry, a train, a bus, a tax, drive. Just because one is driving, does not mean one is going to the city.

You're making an unwarranted inference. The example I'm giving is an example of the unwarranted inference you are making. You are concluding the equivalent of that because someone is driving, they must be going to the city.

She says that one denying Christ may do so in a number of ways (list cited). She does not say anyone doing something on the list is of necessity denying Christ.



If neglecting to abide in Jesus is a known sin, and one cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Christ, then one abiding in Christ cannot neglect to abide in Christ.

hello,i would like to ask a question,i was brought up a sda but done all in my life that was contrary to Gods law,but not so long ago ,please do not ask how it happened i just went to bed really and truely broken up,i just could not stop crying and telling God all my past life and sins it seems something was going on,i asked for his[Gods]forgiveness.the next morning all i seemed to be doing was praising the Lord God and going to church every sabbath and keeping the sabbath has it should be kept,i believe that God answered my prayer.am i really and truely forgiven.for even if i awake i seem to be praying and praising our Lord.what is your reply.i just want to serve God .brian

sorry but i also seem to be paying my tithe and giving offerings also.something is going on i know it is but what

Tom, she clearly says, "In all these ways they declare that Christ is not in them." If Jesus is not dwelling in us, then all our thoughts, words, and deeds are tainted with sin, right?

"All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy." {SC 59.4}

So, are you suggesting born again believers, in whom Jesus is *not* dwelling, can do one or more of the things Sister White listed without denying Jesus? Since what they're doing is polluted with selfishness and sin, how is it not denying Jesus?


Tom, sin is the only thing that can separate us from God. The only known sin we can commit, therefore, while abiding in Jesus is the sin of omission, the sin of neglecting to abide in Jesus. Free will assumes it. It is also assumed in the following passages:

Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 John
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.