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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: James Peterson] #163926
04/03/14 04:37 AM
04/03/14 04:37 AM
dedication  Online Content
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A type is never "exactly" like the real, but gives a representation of the real.

Heaven is a real place -- it's not just some spirits floating around. It is a real place. And though we don't know anything "exactly" to what the sanctuary in heaven looks like, yet scripture gives many references that there is indeed a temple in heaven -- a place where the sin problem is being dealt with by our High Priest and Intercessor.



So what did an earthly priest do in the Holy Place of the earthly sanctuary.

One thing was to offer incense by the altar of incense.

In Rev. 8:2 John sees "an angel" standing before the altar of incense with a golden censer --there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

We believe this is no ordinary angel, but the Creator of the angels -- Jesus, our High Priest in His intercessory work.

Others, also believe this as you will see in the quotes below:

Quote:
“We are satisfied that the angel-priest is Christ—our great High Priest. The service at the altar proves it... No mere creature could add efficacy to the prayers of saints. . . . Further, the action recorded at the altar is of mediatorial character—one between suffering and praying saints on earth and God—and as Christianity knows of but ‘one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus’ (1Ti. 1Ti. 2:5), the proof is undeniable that the angel-priest is Christ.”—Walter Scott, Exposition of The Revelation (London, England: Pickering & Inglis, n.d.), 171.

“This angel offers the prayers of all the saints, and renders them savoury before God. Such an office is nowhere in the Scriptures assigned to angels proper, but is everywhere assigned to the Lord Jesus Christ. There would seem to be strong reason, therefore, for supposing that this Angel is really the Jehovah-Angel, and none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.”—J. A. Seiss, The Apocalypse: Lectures on the Book of Revelation (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1966), 184-185.

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: dedication] #163937
04/03/14 08:59 AM
04/03/14 08:59 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
A type is never "exactly" like the real, but gives a representation of the real.

Heaven is a real place -- it's not just some spirits floating around. It is a real place. And though we don't know anything "exactly" to what the sanctuary in heaven looks like, yet scripture gives many references that there is indeed a temple in heaven -- a place where the sin problem is being dealt with by our High Priest and Intercessor.



So what did an earthly priest do in the Holy Place of the earthly sanctuary.

One thing was to offer incense by the altar of incense.

In Rev. 8:2 John sees "an angel" standing before the altar of incense with a golden censer --there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

We believe this is no ordinary angel, but the Creator of the angels -- Jesus, our High Priest in His intercessory work.


This is what I asked

Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

2. Does Christ do EXACTLY the same thing in the "temple in heaven"?

Do I take it that you have no scripture to show EXACTLY what the earthly priest did in the temple immediately after the sacrifice was made? And that you have no scripture to show that Christ did EXACTLY the same thing in "the temple in heaven"?

///

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: James Peterson] #163939
04/03/14 12:35 PM
04/03/14 12:35 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

"If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the Lord. Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull's blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense before the LORD that is in the tent of meeting" (Lev 4:3-7; see also v. 13-18).

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: Rick H] #163941
04/03/14 03:49 PM
04/03/14 03:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The earthly sanctuary symbolizes the plan of salvation. It depicts the fact Jesus paid our sin debt of death. Jesus lived and died the perfect life and death. However, His life and death is part of a larger plan to save us from sin and death. Jesus must also justify forgiving and saving sinners. He is not at liberty to save everybody. He must also justify punishing unsavable sinners. He is not at liberty to punish everybody.

Exactly how the earthly and heavenly sanctuaries demonstrate the plan of salvation is fascinating. However, they come short of reality. For example, the services performed in the outer court symbolize Jesus' perfect death. But the reality is so much more. Also, the holy place symbolizes Jesus' perfect life. But, again, the reality is so much more.

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: Rosangela] #163950
04/03/14 07:56 PM
04/03/14 07:56 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

"If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the Lord. Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull's blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense before the LORD that is in the tent of meeting" (Lev 4:3-7; see also v. 13-18).

Thank you. My second question to you is then ....

"2. Does Christ do EXACTLY the same thing in the "temple in heaven"? Can you provide the scriptural references that say so."

///

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: Mountain Man] #163952
04/03/14 08:05 PM
04/03/14 08:05 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The earthly sanctuary symbolizes the plan of salvation. It depicts the fact Jesus paid our sin debt of death. Jesus lived and died the perfect life and death. However, His life and death is part of a larger plan to save us from sin and death. Jesus must also justify forgiving and saving sinners. He is not at liberty to save everybody. He must also justify punishing unsavable sinners. He is not at liberty to punish everybody.

Exactly how the earthly and heavenly sanctuaries demonstrate the plan of salvation is fascinating. However, they come short of reality. For example, the services performed in the outer court symbolize Jesus' perfect death. But the reality is so much more. Also, the holy place symbolizes Jesus' perfect life. But, again, the reality is so much more.

It would be helpful if you could provide an answer to the second question I asked Rosangela in the preceding post, namely: "2. Does Christ do EXACTLY the same thing (as the earthly priest) in the "temple in heaven"? And where does it say so in the Bible?"

///

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: Rosangela] #163955
04/03/14 08:45 PM
04/03/14 08:45 PM
L
LUIS  Offline
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New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

"If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the Lord. Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull's blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense before the LORD that is in the tent of meeting" (Lev 4:3-7; see also v. 13-18).


Hello to all.

I don´t see how that verse is relevant to this discussion since it is referring to "unintentional sins" of the priest and obviously that cannot describe Jesus’ daily work on the sanctuary.

Blessings,

Luis

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: LUIS] #163956
04/03/14 09:27 PM
04/03/14 09:27 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: LUIS
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

"If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the Lord. Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull's blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense before the LORD that is in the tent of meeting" (Lev 4:3-7; see also v. 13-18).


Hello to all.

I don´t see how that verse is relevant to this discussion since it is referring to "unintentional sins" of the priest and obviously that cannot describe Jesus’ daily work on the sanctuary.

Blessings,

Luis



Then, would you be kind enough to answer the following questions:

1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple (immediately after the sacrifice was made)? Could you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

2. Does Christ do EXACTLY the same thing in the "temple in heaven"?

Thank you.

///

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: James Peterson] #163960
04/03/14 11:24 PM
04/03/14 11:24 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
1. EXACTLY what work did the earthly priest do in the temple? Can you quote the scriptures that support what you are saying?

"If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the Lord. Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull's blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense before the LORD that is in the tent of meeting" (Lev 4:3-7; see also v. 13-18).

Thank you. My second question to you is then ....

"2. Does Christ do EXACTLY the same thing in the "temple in heaven"? Can you provide the scriptural references that say so."

///

No, James. This was symbolic of what happens in heaven. Of course Christ did not sprinkle and is not now sprinkling His literal blood before God. But for the forgiveness of sin to occur, notice that two things were necessary: 1) the slaying of the sacrifice, and 2) the ministration of the blood.
Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice on earth, but, as a High Priest, He had to apply, in heaven, the benefits of His sacrifice to the sinner, for his forgiveness.

"Nor by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered once for all into the Holies, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Heb 9:12).

The meaning is, as Barnes puts it, that as the priest bore the blood of the animal into the sanctuary, and sprinkled it there as the means of expiation, so the consideration on which Christ pleads for the pardon of his people, is the blood which he shed on Calvary. Having made the atonement, he now pleads the merit of it as a reason why sinners should be saved.

Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement? [Re: Rick H] #163961
04/03/14 11:39 PM
04/03/14 11:39 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada


A type is used as a symbol which points forward to an antitype which is the fulfilment. For example , animal sacrifices were a type of Christ who is the antitypical Lamb of God (John 1: 29). Whenever a type is used in the Scriptures, the antitype or fulfilment is real and superior, encompassing far more than the type could ever portray, nevertheless, the type pointed forward to something REAL.

in the type, a sinner confessed his sins upon the head of the sacrificial animal, and then the animal was sacrificed signifying the penalty being paid for the sin. The story is not finished at that point, because either the blood was taken and sprinkled in the tabernacle, or the priest ate some of the flesh (Leviticus 6: 30; 10: 18). This signified a further transference of sin to God’s sanctuary. So when a repentant sinner confessed his sins, a transfer of that sin into the sanctuary occurred.


The earthly priest carrying the blood into the sanctuary and sprinkling it before the veil symbolized the merits of Christ's blood that is applied and covers the sins.

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The veil sprinkled with the sacrificial blood in the earthly temple was basically symbolic of the record of forgiven sins.

Romans 4:7 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

All through the year the priest would partake of the sacrifice, or carry some of the blood into the sanctuary thus transferring the sins of the people into the sanctuary. Yet even though the sins are transferred into the sanctuary, the sanctuary itself remained holy, just as Jesus remains holy even though He bore our sins.

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