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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Tom]
#99432
05/17/08 04:56 PM
05/17/08 04:56 PM
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MM: What about the people who did obey the law of Moses? Were they guilty of sinning? For example, in the case of polygamy, were they guilty of sinning because they obeyed the law of Moses? Did God sanction the law of Moses? Or, did Moses misunderstand God and add things to the law that God did not sanction?
TE: MM, it seems much more likely that you are misunderstanding things here, and that God did not command anyone to sin. You agreed that polygamy is a sin. If God commanded it, then He commanded sin. But you agreed that God would not command anyone to sin. Therefore He did not command anyone to be polygamous. Then why is polygamy permitted in the law of Moses? Does God permit sinning? MM: He did obey the law of Moses, right? He commanded them to stone her, which was in accordance with the law of Moses. So, what do you think? Was Moses guilty of sinning when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death? Or, did Moses misunderstand God's instruction?
TE: If Moses acted like Jesus did, He was not guilty of sin.
What is your answer? Was Moses guilty of sinning when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death?
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#99437
05/17/08 06:09 PM
05/17/08 06:09 PM
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Then why is polygamy permitted in the law of Moses? Does God permit sinning?
God permitted divorce too. Actually, in their ignorance, God permitted many, many things. If we want to see what God's ideal will was, and is, we have but to look at Jesus Christ. What is your answer? Was Moses guilty of sinning when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death? My answer is that if Moses acted as Jesus did, he would not be guilty of sin.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Tom]
#99470
05/18/08 03:23 PM
05/18/08 03:23 PM
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MM: Then why is polygamy permitted in the law of Moses? Does God permit sinning?
TE: God permitted divorce too. Actually, in their ignorance, God permitted many, many things. If we want to see what God's ideal will was, and is, we have but to look at Jesus Christ. Does God permit sinning? MM: What is your answer? Was Moses guilty of sinning when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death?
TE: My answer is that if Moses acted as Jesus did, he would not be guilty of sin. Did he act like Jesus when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death?
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#99481
05/18/08 10:10 PM
05/18/08 10:10 PM
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I don't know what you're asking here. Please try asking it in another way. I pointed out that God permitted divorce. God also permitted polygamy. You recognize that polygamy is a sin. I'm not understanding how you still have a question here. MM: What is your answer? Was Moses guilty of sinning when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death?
TE: My answer is that if Moses acted as Jesus did, he would not be guilty of sin.
Did he act like Jesus when he obeyed God's command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death? When did Moses do this? (stone a Sabbath-breaker to death) Who is our example? Is it Moses, or Christ? 38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matt. 5:39-48) 14The Word became a human being and lived here with us.
We saw his true glory, the glory of the only Son
of the Father. From him all the kindness and all the truth of
God have come down to us.
17The Law was given by Moses, but Jesus Christ brought us
undeserved kindness and truth. 18No one has ever seen God. The
only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has
shown us what God is like. (John 1) If you wish to understand the ways of God, look to Christ!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Tom]
#99487
05/19/08 12:21 PM
05/19/08 12:21 PM
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TE: I don't know what you're asking here. Please try asking it in another way. I pointed out that God permitted divorce. God also permitted polygamy. You recognize that polygamy is a sin. I'm not understanding how you still have a question here.
MM: Where does it say in the Bible, in the law of Moses, that God "permitted" polygamy or divorce? And, if it is indeed a sin to have more than one spouse at a time, or to get divorced, why, then, did God permit either one? God does not officially permit someone to sin, right? That is, He would make provision for sinning in the law of Moses, right? Obviously, then, it is not sinning in those cases, under those circumstances, where God instructed the COI how to legally get divorced and to how legally have more than one spouse.
---
TE: When did Moses do this? (stone a Sabbath-breaker to death)
MM: You honestly don't remember the story? Here it is:
Numbers
15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
Are you suggesting this action misrepresents the character of God? Do you suspect Moses was deceived? Did God really command him to stone the guy to death? Or, did Moses misunderstand God?
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#99492
05/19/08 08:04 PM
05/19/08 08:04 PM
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OP
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TE: I don't know what you're asking here. Please try asking it in another way. I pointed out that God permitted divorce. God also permitted polygamy. You recognize that polygamy is a sin. I'm not understanding how you still have a question here.
MM: Where does it say in the Bible, in the law of Moses, that God "permitted" polygamy or divorce? I can give a specific reference for divorce, but not for polygamy. That polygamy was permitted we infer from the fact that it wasn't prohibited. Here's where the Bible says that divorce was permitted: He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.(Matt. 19:8) And, if it is indeed a sin to have more than one spouse at a time, or to get divorced, why, then, did God permit either one? "Because of your hardness of heart." God does not officially permit someone to sin, right? "Officially"? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Jesus said divorce was permitted because their hardness of heart. God is gracious. He winks at times of ignorance. That is, He would make provision for sinning in the law of Moses, right? Obviously, then, it is not sinning in those cases, under those circumstances, where God instructed the COI how to legally get divorced and to how legally have more than one spouse. It's not an accountable sin, if that's what you're asking. Regarding the stoning story, yes, I think there's certainly a misunderstanding of God's character involved here; certainly on the part of the COI.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Tom]
#99512
05/21/08 03:41 PM
05/21/08 03:41 PM
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TE: "Officially"? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Jesus said divorce was permitted because their hardness of heart. God is gracious. He winks at times of ignorance.
MM: Ignorance? They weren't ignorant, were they? I mean, God spelled it out in detail who could get divorced and who could have more than one spouse, right? Indeed, they weren't ignorant; instead, they were obeying the expressed will of God as carefully articulated in the law of Moses. There were no sins for God to wink at. Unless you maintain that God officially permitted sinning in the law of Moses.
---
TE:Regarding the stoning story, yes, I think there's certainly a misunderstanding of God's character involved here; certainly on the part of the COI.
MM: So, when God commanded Moses to stone the guy to death, do you think God was testing Moses, and that he failed the test?
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#99520
05/22/08 01:51 AM
05/22/08 01:51 AM
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OP
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TE: "Officially"? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Jesus said divorce was permitted because their hardness of heart. God is gracious. He winks at times of ignorance.
MM: Ignorance? They weren't ignorant, were they? I mean, God spelled it out in detail who could get divorced and who could have more than one spouse, right? Indeed, they weren't ignorant; instead, they were obeying the expressed will of God as carefully articulated in the law of Moses. There were no sins for God to wink at. Unless you maintain that God officially permitted sinning in the law of Moses. I don't understand you, MM. Jesus said: He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.(Matt. 19:8) So clearly divorce was being permitted, since it says "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives," the operative word being "permitted." EGW comments: Jesus came to our world to rectify mistakes and to restore the moral image of God in man. Wrong sentiments in regard to marriage had found a place in the minds of the teachers of Israel. They were making of none effect the sacred institution of marriage. Man was becoming so hardhearted that he would for the most trivial excuse separate from his wife, or, if he chose, he would separate her from the children and send her away. This was considered a great disgrace and was often accompanied by the most acute suffering on the part of the discarded one.
Christ came to correct these evils, and His first miracle was wrought on the occasion of the marriage. Thus He announced to the world that marriage when kept pure and undefiled is a sacred institution. (AH 341) What is it you are taking issue with? TE:Regarding the stoning story, yes, I think there's certainly a misunderstanding of God's character involved here; certainly on the part of the COI.
MM: So, when God commanded Moses to stone the guy to death, do you think God was testing Moses, and that he failed the test?
No.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Tom]
#99532
05/22/08 04:52 PM
05/22/08 04:52 PM
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SDA
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TE: So clearly divorce was being permitted, since it says "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives," the operative word being "permitted."
MM: Are you associating what God permitted in the law of Moses with "Christ came to correct these evils" (quoted above)? If not, then do you agree that what God permitted in the law of Moses is not a sin, that He didn't permit people to do things that are sinful, that people are not guilty of sinning if they obey the law of Moses?
---
TE:Regarding the stoning story, yes, I think there's certainly a misunderstanding of God's character involved here; certainly on the part of the COI.
MM: So, when God commanded Moses to stone the guy to death, do you think God was testing Moses, and that he failed the test?
TE: No.
MM: Well, then, what do you believe. I keep asking this same question because I keep hoping you will answer it plainly. Here is the question again:
When God commanded Moses to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death, was Moses acting like Jesus when he stoned the guy to death?
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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#99544
05/22/08 09:52 PM
05/22/08 09:52 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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TE: So clearly divorce was being permitted, since it says "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives," the operative word being "permitted."
MM: Are you associating what God permitted in the law of Moses with "Christ came to correct these evils" (quoted above)? If not, then do you agree that what God permitted in the law of Moses is not a sin, that He didn't permit people to do things that are sinful, that people are not guilty of sinning if they obey the law of Moses? Divorce was permitted, but it was an evil. It, and polygamy, did not cease to be evil because they were permitted. Regarding the stoning question, the same principle applies to this incident as to the other incidents you're asking about. It's no different. Because of the hardness of men's hearts, God permits certain things. To try to determine God's ideal will by studying the COI is hopeless. If you want to know God's will, look to Jesus Christ. When the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, the law of Moses commanded that such be stoned. See how Jesus Christ handled the situation. This is God's ideal will.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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