Tom, thank you for that enlightening study on the light of the glory of God. I appreciate all the time and effort you invested. I did a similar search. In many cases the word “light” refers to the truth. In other cases it refers to godly traits of character. And in some cases it refers to a divine physical form of light, and has been witnessed in different settings – in the air, around the throne, or reflected on people’s faces, as in the cases of Jesus, Moses, Stephen, etc.

It is evident in Scripture that God must regulate the intensity of the divine light that radiates from His physical form; otherwise, sinful flesh cannot endure it, cannot survive in its presence. The best example of this is the following passage:


The interesting thing about this story is the effect that the light that radiates from God’s physical person had upon Moses’ exposed skin, his face. It made the skin on his face shine. And the light was so intense he had to wear veil to prevent it from hurting those around him.

From this I am encouraged to conclude that the light that radiates from God’s physical person is so intense that it causes sinful flesh to consume away like wax. “Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.” Thus, God is forced to hide the full intensity of radiant glory or we shall melt in His presence.

The following passages represent the different forms and effects of the light that radiates from God's physical person:

DA 137
The next day John sees Jesus coming. With the light of the glory of God resting upon him, the prophet stretches out his hands, declaring, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world! {DA 137.1}

EW 198
As Stephen stood before his judges, the light of the glory of God rested upon his countenance. "And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel." {EW 198.1}

LHU 78
Direct from the throne proceeded the light of the glory of God. The heavens were opened, and beams of light and glory proceeded therefrom and assumed the form of a dove, in appearance like burnished gold. {LHU 78.5}

ML 33
Let us raise our eyes to the open door of the sanctuary above, where the light of the glory of God shines in the face of Christ, who "is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him." {ML 33.5}

And yet Judas abode in the unveiled presence of Jesus without ill effect. Not so with Moses. God was forced to veil His face because it would have consumed the flesh right off Moses; as it was, seeing God's "back parts" caused the skin on Moses' face to shine so brightly that those around him could not bear to behold it.

TE: God reveals the truth to them, and that stops them in their tracks. You claim that the truth does not cause the wicked to desire death, but it's easy to see that it does.

MM: Not according to the passage I quoted above. It says the exact opposite. Neither the truth nor the brightness of God's glory causes the sinners to die or to desire death. Instead, they are motivated to marshal their forces to take the New Jerusalem by force. It's right there in black and white, Tom.

Later on, in the same chapter, after the Great White Throne judgment is ended, they turn upon one another. In the throes of this slaughter, God causes fire from above and below to engulf the planet. Sinners suffer in duration and in proportion to their sinfulness. The same fires burn up the rubble of earth along with the wicked dead. The truth, therefore, is far from what you wrote. Instead, everything that happens to them after the second resurrection causes them to fight - not desire death.

TE: The whole Great Controversy is about making clear the truth about God's character. The whole purpose of Jesus' mission was the revelation of God's character.

MM: Not at the end of time. By then the GC will have been settled. The only thing left to do is to execute the death penalty on those sinners who rejected Jesus. Common phrases like "the execution of judgment" and "the execution of the death penalty" make it clear that resurrected sinners will not die of natural causes. When someone dies of natural causes nobody says, God executed the death penalty on them.

For example, here's how Sister White uses the phrase: "Under the Roman rule the Sanhedrin could not execute the sentence of death." (DA 698) It should be obvious from the context that executing the death sentence means killing someone - not allowing them to die of natural causes. Here it is again:

GC 299
"Behold," he declared, "the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment upon all." Jude 14, 15. {GC 299}

EW 52
Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years." {EW 52.1}

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TE: Everything I've seen about God's being a consuming fire has to do with sin, but Jesus was sinless, so why should He be consumed? I guess because He had flesh, but why should having flesh cause Him to be consumed by God's physical presence?

MM: Jesus became sin for us; thus, His sinful flesh humanity wold have consumed in the unveiled physical presence of God. "To sin, wherever found, 'our God is a consuming fire.'" Of course, Jesus' divinity would not have been consumed.

"Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zech 14:12) This is what happens to sinful flesh when it is exposed to the unveiled brightness of God.

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TE: I didn't see anything in the passage about this. I looked a little bit in EGW's writings, and couldn't find anywhere that made this assertion. Do you have some passage in mind that talks about the wicked wanting to gain access to the tree of life say they can live forever?

MM: Again, the passage posted above describes what happens after Jesus raises the wicked at the end of time:

1) they see the glory of God without being consumed by it,

2) the force of truth causes them to acknowledge Jesus without it causing them to seek death,

3) they prepare to take the New Jerusalem by force, and

4) the brightness of God's glory encompasses the earth and sinners without causing them to die.

First of all, please notice that neither the truth nor the brightness of God's glory causes the sinners to die or to desire death. This totally refutes your assertions, right? Next, in spite of being exposed to the truth and the light of God's brightness, they marshal their forces to take the New Jerusalem by force. Thus, again, disproving your claims.

Now, why are they motivated to take the New Jerusalem by force? Why do they want to occupy it? Inside the city is the tree of life, right? Is it stretching the truth too much to imagine them wanting free access to the tree of life in order to live forever? I don't think so. In light of the following insights, it makes perfect sense to me:

SR 27
His followers were seeking him, and he aroused himself and, assuming a look of defiance, informed them of his plans to wrest from God the noble Adam and his companion Eve. If he could in any way beguile them to disobedience, God would make some provision whereby they might be pardoned, and then himself and all the fallen angels would be in a fair way to share with them of God's mercy. If this should fail, they could unite with Adam and Eve, for when once they should transgress the law of God they would be subjects of God's wrath, like themselves. Their transgression would place them, also, in a state of rebellion, and they could unite with Adam and Eve, take possession of Eden, and hold it as their home. And if they could gain access to the tree of life in the midst of the garden, their strength would, they thought, be equal to that of the holy angels, and even God Himself could not expel them. {SR 27.3}

EW 51
I was pointed to Adam and Eve in Eden. They partook of the forbidden tree and were driven from the garden, and then the flaming sword was placed around the tree of life, lest they should partake of its fruit and be immortal sinners. The tree of life was to perpetuate immortality. I heard an angel ask, "Who of the family of Adam have passed the flaming sword and have partaken of the tree of life?" I heard another angel answer, "Not one of Adam's family has passed that flaming sword and partaken of that tree; therefore there is not an immortal sinner. The soul that sinneth it shall die an everlasting death--a death that will last forever, from which there will be no hope of a resurrection; and then the wrath of God will be appeased. {EW 51.2}

Regarding Moses' face shining, here are some SOP statements:



Note the faces of the 144,000 shine with the glory of God, as did Moses', because of being filled by the Holy Ghost.



Note that Stephen's face shone like Moses' did. What is it that causes this shining of the face? Clearly it's not a physical manifestation of God, but a spiritual one.



This explains further the spiritual nature of this light of glory reflected on Moses' face.



This ties into our discussion regarding the destruction of the wicked. Notice the similarity to the statement in DA 107, 108. To the righteous, the light is desirable. But to the unrighteous, the light is painful. Why? Because they have sinful flesh? No, since the righteous also have sinful flesh. It is a "penetrating light" which is a terror to the transgressor.

Do you see what's going on, MM? This light is light which opens the soul.



This is the same thing. This is the light of the glory of God. It's a revelation of the truth by Jesus Christ. Notice that what Christ reveals "all appear as if written in letters of fire."

Jesus Christ is the light of the glory of God, who gives life to the righteous, but slays the wicked. Notice the revelation of truth "all appear as if written in letters of fire." This is the fire that comes down from heaven that destroys the wicked.

This is a spiritual truth, MM. The fire, the light of the glory of God, are spiritual things, spiritual manifestations.

How can God communicate spiritual truths in a vision? He does so by physical symbols. It's up to us to interpret these symbols. God has certainly given us more than an ample amount of material to do so.

Jesus Christ is the light of the glory of God. It is He who gives life to the righteous. Notice when the unrighteous are advancing upon the city, what happens to stop them?



It is the uplifting of Jesus Christ! Not force, but light. Not physical light, but spiritual light, namely the "light of the world."

Let's go back to DA 108 for a moment:

[quote]The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.In the time of John the Baptist, Christ was about to appear as the revealer of the character of God. His very presence would make manifest to men their sin.[quote]

See how this all ties together? Jesus Christ, the revealer of the character of God, is the light of the glory of God. "light" = "revealer"; "character" = "glory." It all fits together wonderfully.

I hope you see the light.

First of all, regarding Jesus:



Jesus' glory was veiled.

Regarding Moses, I've dealt with most of this in detail, but I'll make one more point. The glory of God is His character. I'm not understanding how you're missing this in regards to Moses. This can be plainly seen from Scripture. Moses asked God to reveal His glory, and the Lord caused His goodness to pass before him. The Lord revealed His character to Moses. This is very clear.

EGW explains the same thing.



That Moses could only see the backside of God is signifying that He could only receive a partial revelation of God's character. It's not talking about God's literal backside. What Moses saw was God's character. What caused his face to shine, was the revelation of God's character.

Regarding #99442, you said that it is only literal fire from heaven that stops the wicked from advancing upon the city. But this is wrong. It is the uplifting of Jesus Christ which stops them.

What caused rebellion in the first place was confusion regarding the character of God. The revelation of the God's character stops it.

That the wicked choose death is stated in DA 764. GC 543 also tells us that their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, while DA 759, and many other passages, tell us that force is not a principle of God's government, but rather of Satan's, and that the rebellion is not overcome by force.

According to DA 108, the light of the glory of God "slays the wicked." According to DA 764 and GC 543, the unrighteous chose death, and voluntarily choose to be excluded from heaven.




No, it doesn't. My assertions are clear from DA 764 and GC 543.



You've got the events backwards. The revelation of truth and light comes *after* they marshal their forces to take the New Jerusalem by force, not before.



It looks like GC 663 explains why the New Jerusalem is attacked.

TE: How can God communicate spiritual truths in a vision? He does so by physical symbols. It's up to us to interpret these symbols. God has certainly given us more than an ample amount of material to do so.

MM: There is nothing symbolic about the light that radiates from God's physical person. Neither was there anything symbolic about the light that radiated from Moses' face. Light is real; it is not symbolic.

I was responding to what you wrote, not to the SOP. Here's what you posted:

"See, this is speaking of Jesus Christ [in the time of John the Baptist, DA 108] as the revealer of the character of God. He is the light of the glory of God that gives life to the righteous but slays the wicked, because He is the revealer of God's character. Notice it says that only the pure in heart could abide in His presence."

The way you worded things it made me think you were saying only the pure in heart could abide Jesus' presence without being slain by the light of His glory and brightness. But now you are making it clear this didn't happen while Jesus was here in the flesh. And, of course, I agree.


God didn't "show" His character to Moses on the mount; instead, God expressed it in words. He named several of His traits of character, which was by no means is an exhaustive list of His character traits. And, it wasn't the words that God spoke that made the skin on Moses' face shine so brightly that it hurt people around him; rather, it was light radiating from His physical person that caused Moses' skin to shine.

So, yes, I disagree with the idea that the expression "the glory of God" always and only refers to His many different traits of character. Depending on the contect, it can mean one of many different things.