Regarding memory and remembrance, when Scripture says that God remembers our sins no more, that does not mean that His memory has somehow become faulty, but it means He does not think about them; they've been forgiven. Similarly, when the 144,000 are seeking to bring sins to mind to confess, it's not that they forget a big chunk of their lives, and can't remember any sins they have committed, but they can think of no sins they have not confessed.

The reason they are concerned with this is not for their own sake, they are not selfishly being motivated by fear of their own status, but they are concerned for the honor and glory of Christ.



Their concern is over God's holy name.

Nothing can be solved by altering one's memory. If it were possible to solve the sin problem this way, God could simply have altered Lucifer's memory and purged any feelings of resentment and resistance he had in regards to Christ, and then the rebellion would not have taken place.

Our memories are tied into to us. It's not possible to remove our memories without fundamentally altering our identities. God transforms us not by altering our memories, but by sanctifying our thinking and decision making.

Mike,

Maybe, but they are sinful habits. You cannot be born with them.

"Every perverted appetite becomes a warring lust. Appetite was given us for a good purpose, not to become the minister of death by being perverted, and thus degenerating into "lusts, which war against the soul." Peter's admonition is a most direct and forcible warning against the use of all stimulants and narcotics. These indulgences may well be classed among the lusts that exert a pernicious influence upon moral character." {Mar 81.1}

"Every depraved appetite becomes a warring lust. Everything that conflicts with natural law creates a diseased condition of the soul." {RC 144.5}

"You carry with you the testimony that you are a slave to the habit of tea drinking. This is the lust that wars against the soul, stupefying the perceptive faculties." {21MR 39.1}

"But men's natural appetites have been perverted by indulgence. Through unholy gratification they have become 'fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.' Unless the Christian watches unto prayer, he gives loose rein to habits which should be overcome. Unless he feels the need of constant watching, ceaseless vigilance, his inclinations, abused and misguided, will be the means of his backsliding from God." {14MR 295.1}

I don't think sordid details of sins must be remembered in the new earth. A murderer may remember that he killed someone, but he doesn't need to remember the details as to how he did it.

Let's consider the case of Peter's denying Christ. Will he remember this?

Also, the 144,000 were being brought up. The idea seems to be that God will cause them to have selective amnesia, so that they can't remember any sins they have committed. This raises many questions, a number of which I brought up previously, so I won't repeat them here. A more reasonable interpretation, it seems clear to me, is that they cannot remember any sins which have not been confessed, that would be a mark against God's holy name.

R: Maybe, but [the lusts of the flesh] are sinful habits. You cannot be born with them.

MM: Are we born again with them? Isn't Sister White saying in the following quote that the lusts of the flesh tempt us from within to indulge perverted appetites and passions?

1. If so, what is the origin of these types of internally generated temptations?

2. How do we become consciously aware of the fact we are being tempted from within to indulge perverted appetites and passions?

3. Do they originate in the flesh body or in the flesh mind?

4. Or, do they originate outside of us while we are abiding in Jesus? That is, can we be tempted from within while abiding in Jesus?

CC 248
In the experience of Daniel and his companions we have an instance of the triumph of principle over temptation to indulge the appetite. It shows us that through religious principle young men may triumph over the lusts of the flesh, and remain true to God's requirements, even though it costs them a great sacrifice. {CC 248.2}

Tom, isn't it true God can do anything and everything so long as it doesn't violate the principles of kingdom and character? If so, aren't you assuming God is incapable of erasing or deleting certain things from His memory? What makes you think God cannot do this? Do you have a quote in mind? If so, please post it. Otherwise, please do not argue against a plainly worded passage as if your view of God's abilities or inabilities is universally true.

The quotes posted above clearly say they cannot recall the sins they committed. Try as they might, they cannot remember the details. Satan even tries to remind them, to throw them in their face, but they are unable to recall the specifics. She spells it out so clearly that it is impossible to misunderstand the meaning.

Altering our memories would certainly be violating the principles of His kingdom and character.



No, it doesn't say this. That is, it does not say, "Try as they might, they cannot remember the details."



No, she doesn't say this at all. You're reading into what she wrote ideas you have.

The Scriptures say:



Now you wouldn't say that God has a faulty memory, would you? Yet this is what the Scriptures "plainly state."

MM, you are not consistent in your interpretations of inspiration. Sometimes you insist that things things be taken a certain way because this is what it "plainly states," yet in other places where it states these things just as plainly, you don't interpret things the same way. For example, when God says "I will remember your sins no more" you don't see this as meaning that God's memory has been altered, do you? Or maybe you do. I'll guess I'll stop here and wait for your response. When God says, "I will remember your sins no more" do you think this means His memory has been altered?

Ellen White is speaking about Daniel. As I see it, Daniel wouldn’t really have desired to eat pork and drink wine, as he had never done this. He might have missed clean meats to some degree, if they had been part of his diet up to that moment (which is probable). What do you think might have been the lusts of the flesh which tempted him “from within” to indulge perverted appetites and passions?
As I see it, a “lust of the flesh” is simply any act of intemperance (which implies participation in sin). That’s why Peter warns us to abstain from them. You cannot abstain from a desire or need, but from a wrong satisfaction of that desire or need.

TE: Altering our memories would certainly be violating the principles of His kingdom and character.

MM: Perhaps altering them would, but erasing them wouldn't, not any more than changing our bodies in an twinkling of an eye. God is promising to blot out our memory of specific sins and to change our body. If we comply with the conditions, seeking earnestly to experience them, it is not a violation of principle.

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TE: When God says, "I will remember your sins no more" do you think this means His memory has been altered?

MM: I believe God is capable of anything and everything. He can do all things. Since He says He will not remember our sins I believe Him. Does it mean He will forget them or lose the ability to remember them? I doubt it. But I do believe God possesses the power to delete certain things from His memory. I do not doubt it even for a second.

Actually, I believe Daniel was like everyone else in that he had to resist the clamorings of unholy flesh in the same way, and for the reasons, Paul did.

TDG 277
Paul was in such constant dread, lest his evil propensities should get the better of him, that he was constantly battling, with firm resistance, unruly appetites and passions. (TDG 277)

The "lusts of the flesh", therefore, are sinful desires and affections we must recognize and resist as temptations. Above you wrote, "You cannot abstain from a desire or need, but from a wrong satisfaction of that desire or need." Desiring something wrong is a sin, too, right? We call it covetousness. So, abstaining from unholy desires means resisting them. It is not a sin to be tempted to be covetous. Which forces us to ask - What is the origin of covetousness, of tempting unholy desires?

You also asked, "What do you think might have been the lusts of the flesh which tempted him “from within” to indulge perverted appetites and passions?" I believe it was his sinful flesh body, which I believe is the origin and source of all internally generated temptations. Again, if evil angels were dead and gone, sinful flesh would remain to tempt and annoy us.

The following quote, from AH 127, explains the dynamics nicely. Taking it point by point, do you agree with me that ...

1. "The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it." Whatever our lower passions are, they originate in the body and work through it. "Work through it" means our lower passions work through the faculties of our body to generate and to communicate unholy thoughts and feelings.

2. "The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God." The flesh cannot act out its unholy lusts and affections. It can only tempt us to act them out. The flesh cannot be guilty of covetousness. Yes, it is sinful, but it cannot commit a sin.

3. "We are commanded to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. How shall we do it? Shall we inflict pain on the body? No; but put to death the temptation to sin." The flesh generates lusts and affections and communicates them to our conscious new man mind. The lusts and affections of the flesh constitute internal temptations. In order to crucify them, we are commanded to abstain from them, to resist them.

4. "The corrupt thought is to be expelled. Every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ." Again, the flesh generates lusts and affections and communicates them to our conscious new man mind. We become aware of them as unholy thoughts and feelings. Initially, they are temptations. We are not guilty of them until we cherish them or act them out.

5. "All animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher powers of the soul. The love of God must reign supreme; Christ must occupy an undivided throne. Our bodies are to be regarded as His purchased possession. The members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness." The following terms are synonymous: lower passions, flesh, fleshly, carnal lusts, animal propensities, and the lower, corrupt nature. This aspect of human nature wars against the Spirit and mind of the new man. It seeks to enslave us, to rule over us as lord and master. It craves and clamors for sinful expression. It can communicate sinful thoughts and feelings, but it cannot commit a sin. In Christ, we are empowered from above and from within to use our higher powers to rule our lower powers, to act out our innocent and legitimate appetites and passions in holy and harmless ways in accordance with God's will.