Rosangela, are you suggesting the great multitude are the only ones in heaven who wear white robes washed in the blood of Jesus? What about all the other people who wear white robes in heaven - are they part of the great multitude, too? Is there just one group of saints in heaven?

Also, how can we conclude the following two groups are one and the same when the descriptions are nearly opposite?

This wouldn’t be surprising in Revelation, would it? The correspondence in Revelation between what John hears the angel say that he will see, and what he actually sees, generally is something different from what the angel said.

Would it be a terrible blow to your beliefs Mike, if it turns out there is just one group? Could you live with that? Could you live in post-sin for eternity in such conditions?

The angel asks John about a specific group of people clothed in white robes, and the group John describes as wearing white robes is the great multitude. There is no way around it.
All the phrases which describe the great multitude in John’s vision, Ellen White applies to the 144,000 in GC. We have two possibilities here: 1) either both groups are one and the same, or 2) the 144,000 are a subgroup within the great multitude of all the saved of all eras, so that what applies to the great multitude applies automatically to them.


This wouldn’t be surprising in Revelation, would it? The correspondence in Revelation between what John hears the angel say that he will see, and what he actually sees, generally is something different from what the angel said.

Revelation 5:
v. 5: “And one of the elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda...”
v. 6: “And I beheld, and lo... a Lamb as it had been slain...”

Revelation 17:
v. 1: “And there came one of the 7 angels which had the 7 vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither: I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.”
v. 3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,...”

Revelation 21:
v. 9: “And there came unto me one of the 7 angels which had the 7 vials... and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
v. 10: “And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city...”

Thomas, I'm sorry, after all these years, you don't know me well enough that you have to ask me these questions. I had hoped that you would know my answers without having to ask. It wouldn't bother me in the least if we are all toads in heaven, so long as I am there with Jesus and family and friends. I will croak until my heart is content, and croak some more.

2) the 144,000 are a subgroup within the great multitude of all the saved of all eras, so that what applies to the great multitude applies automatically to them.

Rosangela, what do you make of the differences you cited above? What does it mean to you?

PS - What do you make the GC quote I posted above, the one describing 3 concentric circles consisting of 3 different people groups gathered around the throne of God? The "great multitude" makes up the outer most circle of people; whereas, the 144,000 are part of the middle circle. What does this mean to you in light of our current discussion?

This is a good point. Is there any reason to suppose this is unique to John?