I in turn am not sure what you are unsure about. I thought I was clear enough. No. Clear disagree.Never heard of such an idea.Is this where you lost track? The quote from revelation aswell as many other passages from the epistles make clear that the temple in the new earth is the saints and not a literal building.
Ephesians 2:20-22
2 Corinthians 6:15-17
1 Corinthians 6:18-20
Revelation 21:22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.Disagree, as explained in previous posts.Eh...

Thomas, thank you for making it clear what you believe. Regarding the temple in the New Earth, I take it you also disagree with Sister White.

PS - Actually, I don't understand the "Eh..." at the end of your last post.

[quote=Mountain Man]Thomas, you lost me. I'm not sure what you're talking about. What do you agree with and what do you disagree with? Here are the points I have made, with some additional elaboration:

1. The 144,000 is a literal number of Christians who will be numbered and sealed during the investigative judgment of the living.

Bert: I believe that the 144,000 is a symbolic number, and the reason I believe it is symbolic is because the 12 different tribes that constitute the 144,000 are symbolic. I feel that a symbolic make-up of the 12 tribes cannot then constitute a literal group of 144,000. Either they are both literal, or they are both symbolic. Based on research of scripture and reference material, it seems to be more important to recognize that the 'number of 144,000' refers more to what they are, and what they represent, than their numbers or who they are. In other words, their character, which is the basis for them to be sealed in the first place. John's reference to 'being sealed' seems to be a reiteration of what happened to Israel in Ezekiel's time (Ez. 9).

2. The 12 different tribes or names symbolize 12 different character traits. Christians will be numbered and sealed according to their predominate traits of character. There will be 12,000 in each tribe or trait of character.

Bert: I differ in my understanding of the 12 tribes. The reason for the sealing is to identify those who belong to God. Sealing endows ownership, and by sealing in the end time, God is sealing His own against the 'time of tribulation' and other events that will occur just prior to Christ's coming. Obviously, the sealing involves character traits, but I don't believe that there are any assignations by traits of character, only that they possess those traits necessary for salvation.

3. They will experience Jacob's Time of Trouble during the outpouring of the seven last plagues, and will be translated alive when Jesus arrives.

Bert: I generally agree. They will experience the 'time of tribulation' that will come upon the earth in the very last days, as well as the seven last plagues. They will also experience the coming of Jesus Christ in all His glory, and will be changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'.

4. They have exclusive access to the temple in the New Earth. This temple is a literal building located on the summit of Mount Zion, which is somewhere outside the walls of New Jerusalem.

Bert: I have no knowledge of this thought. Could you furnish a scriptural reference? That seems to be an interesting premise to explore.

5. The Great Multitude is a different group of people. They will be part of the general first resurrection when Jesus arrives.

Bert: I disagree with this assessment. According to 1 Thess. 4:15-17, the 'dead in Christ' will rise, and together with those 'still alive' will be 'caught up in the air' to meet Jesus. Those who will be still alive will include the 144,000. They will all go to heaven together. This is the first resurrection.

And a new point I haven't made yet,

6. A special resurrection will occur after probation closes and before Jesus arrives. It consists of two groups of people. It is described in the following passage.

LDE 271
Graves are opened, and "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth . . . awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2). All who have died in the faith of the third angel's message come forth from the tomb glorified to hear God's covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. "They also which pierced Him" (Rev. 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ's dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory, and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient.--GC 636, 637 (1911). {LDE 271.2}

Bert: I agree with these statements. The ones who 'pierced Him' are the very few who might experience three deaths.

Bert

I guess you could translate it in this context to something like a sceptical "Okeey", or a "yea, right..."

Thomas, I take it then you disagree with Sister White's view on these two matters (the temple and the special resurrection). No problem. Thanx for sharing.

Bert, thank you for sharing your views. We'll know the truth about it soon enough, at least I hope so, that is, I hope Jesus will return within my lifetime. Regarding the temple in the New Earth, the clearest information on it is the SOP. That's why it came up on this thread. See quotes posted above.

Also, where in the prophecies of D&R are the numbers used anything but literal?

MM, I agree with you that the closeness of Christ's coming again can be almost discerned. There was an article in the newspaper this morning lamenting the weak responses to pleas for donations to various charities that serve areas in which a disaster has occurred. The consensus of opinion of the cause of the weak response is that there is one major disaster after another, and people are de-sensitized and numb from the overwhelming impact of these terrible disasters. Of course, as Christians, we have been warned that these things must come about right before Christ returns.

Your reference to numbers being literal. The 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel is not literal per se, but rather is changed to years. the same for the 2300 days, the 42 months prophecy, etc.

God bless!
Bert

BERT: Your reference to numbers being literal. The 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel is not literal per se, but rather is changed to years. the same for the 2300 days, the 42 months prophecy, etc.

MM: Are you saying the 70 weeks, 2300 days and 42 months are not literal numbers? I agree the things associated with the numbers are symbolic, but what about the number itself?

Bert: The 70 weeks is changed to 490 years, the 2300 days are 2300 years and the 42 months is the same as the 1,260 days, which translates to 1,260 years, and is the same as the 'time, times and half a time'.

Bert, so you agree that the numbers are literal, right? And, you agree that the things associated with the numbers are symbolic, right?

For example, the 70 weeks symbolize 70 weeks of literal years or 490 literal years beginning in 457 BC and ending in 34 AD. The 42 months and 1260 days symbolize 1260 literal years beginning in 538 AD and ending in 1798 AD.

In other words, do not believe the numbers are symbolic of undefined periods of time or undefined eras, with no definitive starting or ending dates, right?